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Posts posted by Louden

  1. Be prepared for a long story of me being a proud dad willing to brag on his girl a bit!  Anyone who follows youth wrestling on Facebook has likely heard some of this tale already...  What do you want from me?  🙂

    I've been among the missouriwrestlingdotcom community since 2002, I believe, when I was a young lad of 22.  So long ago that I remember when Mickey Joe Stern did the State Rankings.  Anyone who has been around during that time knows I came from Northwest and was/am a die hard supporter of the Lions and the Wilhelm Regime that runs it.  I even ran the State Rankings myself one year, in 2004 if I recall.

    I had very little wrestling experience myself.  I came more from the Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu world and didn't try out wrestling until I was a senior in High School and did so really only to get better at takedowns to help my BJJ game.  I didn't fall in love with wrestling until 2001 when I began going to all of my school's wrestling meets to support a friend who was in his final year.  After that I stayed involved and went to pretty much every dual or tournament for the next 6 years.  I fell off the map because I moved an hour away from Northwest and worked a later shift at my new job, which all prevented me from devoting as much time to wrestling as I used to.

    I always wanted to experience being the parent of a wrestler, and used to say as much often while in my early 20's.  A wrestler friend of mine joked that with as much as I wanted to have a son that wrestles, I'd probably end up with all daughters.  His joke ended up becoming a reality, as I have 2 girls and no boys with no future children on the agenda.

    Over the years I did sometimes entertain the thoughts of my eldest daughter wrestling, but in all my years involved with the sport I only knew of two girls that were competitive with the boys, Ashley Hudson and Randi Beltz.  Because of the lack of competitive girls wrestling I only rarely thought about asking my daughter to wrestle but never *really* considered it. 


    Fast forward to the 2018-2019 inaugural Girls High School Wrestling Season.


    Even though I found out about this sometime in 2018 and my eldest daughter was 9 or 10, it *still* didn't occur to me to ask my daughter about wrestling.  She was playing soccer at the time and was good at it, getting a lot of praise from her coaches.  She was aggressive and fast and fearless, so I thought maybe she had a future in soccer (a sport I really didn't care much about).  It was in late January of 2019 when I was on Facebook watching my friend post his sons (Cohenn and Carter Stark) matches that I finally had it hit me... "Hey, Mialee can do this!" so I asked her if she wanted to try.  She shrugged her shoulders kind of indifferent, so I began looking around to where she could go to practice.

    First I had to contact her soccer team, because we had JUST paid for her next session, and asked if we could pull her and get a refund.  Second, it was the end of the Youth Season, so I had to find a place to go.  At the time we lived in the Zumwalt West School District (but now live in Francis Howell School District), but online I didn't see much about their Youth Program.  What I did see was Francis Howell and Fort Zumwalt North.  I decided to contact Howell and ask if she could come out for a couple practices to see if she liked it.  The coach said it was okay and gave me their practice times.  A week or so later I took Mialee to her first practice.  She said she liked it alright after going to the final 5 practices of the season so I looked for a place to put her in the off-season.  Purler seemed like the best place so I enrolled her there, and also Wright City Wrestling opened up a girls only practice which remained open for just 5 practices before the school made other arrangements for the gym on the scheduled evening.

    At Purler it was really rough for Mialee in terms of competition and partners.  It is recommended that wrestlers have a year worth of experience before enrolling and Mialee had none.  Plus she was paired with all boys who had either a year or multiple years of experience.  It was pretty rough on her in the beginning, which included some tears.  To keep her from losing motivation, I offered to give her a dollar for each time she managed to score - which didn't happen often given her partners level, even when she paired with boys 20 lbs smaller than her.  This helped because she would earn between $2-$5 each practice.  On especially rough days I'd take her to get ice cream afterwards as a reward (and a strategy to chase off negative feelings).  She never once asked to quit.

    In July I wanted her to experience a tournament, so I took her to the only tournament I could find taking place over the next couple of months, Midwest Nationals.  This was obviously going to be a tournament she wasn't going to win - perhaps not even a match - but I wanted her to see what wrestling was all about.  I wanted her to see what the practices were for.  So we went, and unfortunately she only had two girls in her bracket, both with many years of experience and highly ranked in their State, Illinois and Indiana.  Mialee was pinned both times.  But at least it was an experience.  She went back to Purler to practice some more but we stopped a bit before the season starts to give her a break so that she could enter her first wrestling season fresh. 


    So now I finally get to the point.  Mialee had her first wrestling season, and she did incredible!  She exceeded all expectations I had!  Early on she made some mistakes that cost her - such as running a power-half wrong which allowed too many reversals and cost her a couple winnable matches (notably in the Missouri Challenge) but she quickly corrected those and improved dramatically during the season.  She ended the season as follows:

    31-9 Record

    17-5 vs boys (first year wrestlers, like herself) and 14-4 vs girls (of any experience level)

    1st Place in SEVEN Tournaments

    2nd Place in FOUR Tournaments

    5th in State in Girls Wrestling

    She ended the season with a 1st Place finish at AAU State Gold in a 10-man bracket at 90 lbs, a weight she moved up to in February.  She also holds a pin victory over the boy who won the AAU Gold title in a 9-man bracket at 85 lbs, the weight she was at most of the year, but started to not be able to make by the end of January. (I wasn't going to make her cut, she's 11 years old.)  Mialee was also the first girl to win AAU Gold (for first year wrestlers) in a bracket with more than 3 kids in it since Autumn Flanigan did it 5 tournaments before this in 2016.  I was curious, so I looked through the tournaments on trackwrestling.  Each season there are around 70 brackets between all of the different age and weight classes, and I had to go back 5 tournaments to find the last girl to win a large bracket for first year wrestlers (maybe 4 others did it during that time frame, but had 3 or less kids in the bracket.  Still a great accomplisment!)  As most will know, Autumn was the undefeated Girls State Champion in High School at 120 lbs this past season.  I was pretty stoked to see that!  I should also add that although Mialee was the first girl to do this in 5 tournaments (in a large bracket) another girl pulled this off as well, later in the evening.  Johanna Watkins of Holt Jr Indians won a 8-man bracket at 112 lbs.  Congrats to her!

    Mialee ended up with 25 pins out of her 31 wins, 1 major, and 5 decisions.


    This is why I am sharing this long story and the history behind it.  I fell in love with the sport of wrestling almost 20 years ago, and after I never had the sons to wrestle and thought I'd miss out on the experience of rooting for a child competing in this great sport, and along comes my freaking DAUGHTER who has given me more than I could have hoped for during her first wrestling season!  You're damn right I'm going to share my excitement!  🙂

    So we are on to the next stage of this journey.  Next season Mialee will have to wrestle kids who are at a much higher level than the ones she competed against during her first season, so there is a lot of preparation yet to come, but I am so looking forward to it.  Even if she only goes .500 next season, I am excited to witness the journey.

    Below is my daughter's Wrestling YouTube Channel where you can see all of her matches.  I have been told many parents don't publish their kids matches because their kid's competitors may scout them out.  If that even happens, I don't really care about that.  First off, this is Youth Wrestling, not College or even High School.  Second, I was able to correct many of Mialee's mistakes by watching her opponents take advantage of them and expose them, so if some future opponent watches a video and sees a hole in her game that they end up exploiting, GOOD.  That will help me to fill those holes in practice.

    If you managed to spend some of your quarantined time reading this, thanks!  I am exceedingly proud of what my daughter has accomplished as a first year wrestling 6th Grader, and I hope that by the time she hits High School she will be competitive with top girls in the State and make a run for the State Title!


    Wrestle Mialee  <--YouTube link

    Trackwrestling Profile











    • Like 2
  2. 12 hours ago, mrvcfan4life said:

    This has nothing to do with wrestling. Go argue somewhere else


    That was exactly my point.  Why was this even brought up in the first place?  It should never have even been brought up, and it's extremely tiring hearing about it for no reason.

    • Like 1
  3. 30 minutes ago, Joedog3 said:

    I do not know of anyone seething over J'den Cox being a championship wrestler. That was a hypothetical example.

    I am not sure why this was ever brought this up then.  There could be someone seething that there isn't a green bean flavored ice cream.  We don't talk about that.

    30 minutes ago, Joedog3 said:

    Likewise, I do not know of anyone being uncomfortable with who he does or doesn't date. Again, it was a hypothetical.

    As I said, there is absolutely no reason to bring it up then.  

    30 minutes ago, Joedog3 said:

    I disagree with your opinion that "everything is racist". When Trump reports that windmills cause cancer, I disagree with him without it having anything to do with race.

    That's easy enough to do, even if you personally aren't doing it.  Less nutty things have been done.  Watch the video and see how grievance ideology works.  Those scholars mentioned in the video sent in a "study" to Academic Journals how dog humping in parks is racist as a hoax and it got published and nominated for "Outstanding Scholarship".

    30 minutes ago, Joedog3 said:

    I agree that calling someone a racist can be a quick and easy overgeneralization and condemnation of the person's character and because it is quick and easy, it is prone to error.

    That's progress of a kind.

    30 minutes ago, Joedog3 said:

    Thanks for the youtube example of "racist" dog owners. As I mentioned in my post, given the diversity of people, thoughts, opinions and beliefs, I'm not completely stunned. I mean, you can quickly find evidence of people who believe the Earth is flat, but I don't believe the majority of people believe this, at least not yet.

    Flat earthers aren't getting their ideas into positions of power and influence.  Neither are "Nazi's".  But Grievance Merchants have infiltrated everywhere with their ideology.  They run Universities, they're in Congress, they're in HR departments at large corporations, they run social media platforms, they make up the majority of "journalists", they dominate Hollywood, etc.

    I, and so many others, are absolutely sick of it.  It's tearing this country apart.

  4. 3 hours ago, Joedog3 said:

    Um, who exactly believes owning dogs is racist? 




    If one cheers for J'den Cox as the wrestling champ that he is, you probably suffer less from racism than one who seethes mightily over a black man being such an accomplished wrestler.

    Who the hell is seething over J'Den Cox?


    If one is cool with J'den as a wrestling champ, but would be uncomfortable if he dated a white woman, you probably suffer from some level of racism but maybe not as much as someone else.

    Who the hell is uncomfortable with who J'Den Cox dates?


    I find the problem with calling someone a racist is that it tends to a binary description of someone (you either are or you aren't). I think most of us probably fall along a continuum regarding the degree to which we suffer with racism and the degree to which we challenge our own preconceptions about a person's character or tendencies based on skin color.

    I find the problem with calling people racist is that it has become the "go to" method of discrediting anyone the accuser does not like these days.  Everything is racist.  Chris Pratt is now being accused of being a white supremacist because he wore the "Don't Tread On Me" shirt.  Most normal people don't give a shit about racism and just live their lives to the best of their ability and do not interfere with the lives of other people because of "racism".  But there is a unsettling amount of people in this country who are RACE OBSESSED and bring it up in the context of EVERYTHING as a tool for a power grab of some form.  

  5. On 7/13/2019 at 7:24 PM, wrestej said:

    I did not know you have to believe in slavery in order to be racist.

    Are we talking about who is racist?  I haven't heard this one before.  Owning dogs is racist, keeping track of time is racist, not agreeing with the left is racist.  Everything is racist... which means the word has lost it's meaning and is more likely to turn me off towards people using it than anything else.

  6. Watson took 2nd to Barker in 2000.

    I don't think many of the above qualify.  


    The criteria mentioned was best first year or 2nd year of wrestling.  Not best wrestlers who had no youth wrestling.  For example, I specifically mentioned Buchanan's 2nd year of wrestling where he took 2nd at State, not his 3rd and 4th years of wrestling where he took 3rd and 1st.

    • Like 1
  7. I think it all depends.

    It seems to me that it is far easier to see when a parent/coach is doing something wrong than it is to see when they're doing something right.  The circumstances vary between each child and family.  I've observed fathers who push their little kid hard without ever offering a compliment or praise, even when the child seeks it. I've also seen fathers so aloof and uninvolved that their kid was making the most basic of mistakes (like stance or offering any resistance when going live) for months on end without ever showing the slightest improvement.  (Coach can't do it all).

    There doesn't seem to be a perfect way of doing it.  

    It seems to me that in Youth Wrestling burn out is a common issue.  I remember wrestlers that had a lot of natural talent at the youth level but either quit before High School or made it a year or two in and then quit.  Attempting to navigate that as a parent can be difficult, and often some kids respond differently than even their own siblings might to encouragement or pressure.

    If I had to wager, I would say that kids who are ridden like horses throughout their youth years without any real communication/feedback allowed will experience a higher percentage of burn out than those who are enjoying it and are involved in an active conversation with their parents about wrestling.  The youngest kids do what they're told and don't often question.  As kids age they are going to start exploring in their minds what it is that they are doing and what they want.  If wrestling has been nothing but misery it's going to be hard for that kid to find reasons to stick it out for the long haul, unless that kid has parents who are willing to listen to them and guide them.

    On 4/9/2019 at 8:44 AM, Warren Haynes said:

    I once saw a coach question a kid's "heart" at a little league tournament. The kid couldn't have been older than 8. I was appalled. 

    Yikes!  Not cool.

  8. I came across this article by Cary Kolat.  In it he discusses kids wrestling too young.  This is likely to be a controversial topic with hard opinions, so chime in and let us know what you think:



    Kids burning out in the sport of wrestling has been a debate since before kids even began specializing.  To steal a line from my favorite TV show S.O.A. (Son's of Anarchy), "What's the End Game?"  

    To be brief lets say the end game is the World or Olympic stage.  This easily could be pages of debate and I expect I will probably receive comments asking questions but competing too soon is the number one problem in my opinion.

    Simply put if you start wrestling at 5 years old and have much success the odds are you won't make it to college level wrestling.  Forget about the world stage because you probably won't be around.  Pretty much every athlete is dealing with different types of outside and internal pressure when competing.  Those pressures come in the form of other athletes catching up, family pressure, making weight, balancing school, and I can go on.

    How long before that wrestler says to himself, "this is just not fun to me any longer?"  If you start early then dealing with this pressure naturally begins.  Those 5 year old wrestlers by the time they graduate high school have been dealing with it for approximately 15 years.

    College begins another level of competing and a whole new level of pressure, the athletes you face are just better.  Nothing will ever be easy again at that level, and many just say I'm done leaving the sport.

    Those who start in 7th, 8th, even 9th grade are just starting to get competitive and still have a love for wrestling.  They are less likely to fizzle out because they have not dealt with the outside and internal influences as long as the 5 year old still trying to keep going.  They have the greatest chance of reaching the top level of our sport.

    Little kid titles are good for a short confidence boost but that is about all it's worth.  Find the boost from other places before putting him in a singlet thinking that is the answer.  Wrestling is so different than other sports it's fun, but at the same time not fun if another human being is dominating you.

    There are rule breakers to every theory and some will start at 5 and be successful but you can't use them as a guide.  I see all these rankings for kids at age 8 nationally and I shake my head because 95% of them will not make it past high school.


    What say you?

  9. Say a team has a girl's team wrestler that's better than the boy's varsity wrestler at the same weight.  Are the girls forbidden from now wrestling boys that they have separate state Tournaments?  Is a switch allowed on dual meets sometimes? 

    Curious how this would work.  Say the Conference title is on the line and a team has a stud girl wrestler.  Are they unable to allow her to compete in the dual for the Conference Championship?

  10. 2 hours ago, fudge tunnel said:

    Against Ruben’s DeLeon (CSU-B) in the quarterfinals, 2000 NCAA’s.  DeLeon ended up a 2x AA (7th in ‘00, 8th in ‘01).  Its a shame Hill didn’t stick around college longer.  Would loved to have seen him battle with Abas the next couple of years at 125.  

    There's a couple of TJ Hill videos on Youtube.  Only 1 from High School that I found, and it is not a match against kids during the season.  I believe it is just after he won his last title.

    I heard rumor that he is back in Missouri now.  I think he was gone for awhile.

  11. RIP Obnoxio. 

    Jerry will certainly be missed.  He was an incredibly nice guy, always upbeat, and a total goofball.  He was always packing a joke or a tease.  I will remember fondly the many dual meets and tournaments that we sat together and chatted about anything that came to mind.  I even lured him over to be a fan of the "Norfwest Kittens".  I hadn't spoken to him in about 10 years or so.

    Also, Jerry's dad who posted here as Father Joe is also gone, as of October 2018.  RIP Padre.  The two men were never far apart at wrestling meets and were always welcoming.  Sad times.

    • Like 3
  12. 2 hours ago, Bearcat 90 said:

    Overall I thought the Girls State was a huge success. Being on the floor all weekend, I witnesses lots of smiles, as well as happy and sad girls with the girls, which strangely enough was the same for the boys. 

    Well, I for one am very excited about this.  

    I once joked with my friend - before I had children - that one of my dreams is to watch my sons wrestle... but watch me end up having all girls.  Sure enough, I had two girls and no boys and my wife and I aren't planning on having any more.

    When I found out that MSHSAA opened up a Girls State Tournament, I immediately asked my daughter if she would be interested in trying it out.  She's very competitive, aggressive in sports, and is very quick so I thought that she might find wrestling to be a fit for her.  So far so good, albeit we are at the very beginning of this.  This has made me extremely excited.  I haven't really followed wrestling for the past 10 years or so after following it religiously from 2001-2010.  When I first walked into the practice room waves of nostalgia rolled in.  Lord, I miss wrestling!

    • Like 2
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