Johnny Hendricks vs Amir Soddolah UFC 101

[Retired]

Who will come out on top in this one?

[Retired]

Also Jake Rosholt (0-1 UFC) vs Chris Leben at UFC 102

[Louden]

Who will come out on top in this one?

Hard to say. On paper Hendricks walks away with this one, but then again, on paper EVERYONE Amir faced should beat him. Instead he beat a lot of good guys including wrestling standout CB Dolloway twice.

Leben vs Rosholt is also interesting. If the Rosholt that fought Osterneck fights Leben, it's probably lights out for Jake. If he fights smart he can beat Chris.

[stillman]

How does Rosholt, with an 0-1 record earn a fight with Leben who is 18-5 and has fought some of the most elite fighters in the UFC including Anderson Silva??
Logically speaking shouldn't he have to win some lower level fights and work his way up? If he should catch Leben and KO him, does that put him in line for a title shot with a 1-1 record?

Smells fishy to me......just saying..... :^o

[Louden]

Well Leben isn't exactly Top Tier, and he has struggled in the past against guys who take him down and lay on him. This should be interesting.

[stillman]

Maybe punishment for testing positive for steroids :oops: :lol: :lol:

Leben may not be as top tier as some of the guys but he fought his way into higher profile fights, they weren't just gifts :roll:

Rosholt got choked out in 63 seconds against Dan Miller. I just don't get it?? #-o

[Dave Jackson]

Good point about him getting choked out in 63 second's against Dan Miller. Doesn't seem to make sense... Interesting to see Shane Roller lose Sunday night in the WEC. I could be wrong, but I believe Shane hold's the all-time record for Tulsa Natl's championship's with 7.

[Louden]

Clearly wrestling is a great BASE, but more is needed.

IMO wrestling is probably the best base you can start with. That or BJJ.

[Retired]

-Leben is famous for hating wrestlers (see season 1 of the ultimate fighter)
-I say both of these guys would have to win four or five straight fights to get a title shot
-Often the UFC gives face guys like Leben a nOOb after losing to get back on the winning streak
-Also there are no more easy fights in the UFC

[stillman]

-Leben is famous for hating wrestlers (see season 1 of the ultimate fighter)
-I say both of these guys would have to win four or five straight fights to get a title shot
-Often the UFC gives face guys like Leben a nOOb after losing to get back on the winning streak
-Also there are no more easy fights in the UFC

If Rosholt was a monster who had destroyed everyone he faced before coming to the ufc and then destroyed Miller in 63 seconds, I could see him getting this bout. BUT that hasn't happened and I think someone owed someone a favor or something for him to get the match. (What gym does he fight out of again?)

Leben is ranked 22

Rosholt is ranked 34 ??? with an 5-1 overall record and 0-1 ufc. He has wins over well known fighters (sarcasm) Dusty Miller, Chris Clark, Jeremiah Caves, Chad Jay, Osterneck?? :roll: :roll: I don't believe any of these guys are ranked.

Rosholt is ranked over fighters such as:
Sakara #40
Lister #44
Terry Martin #51
Nate Quarry #52
Travis Lutter #53
Frank Shamrock #56

#-o I would prefer to see him fight (and beat) some of the lower ranked guys before getting a shot at a higher profile guy like Leben. The system (if there is one) would seem to make sense then.

I hope he does well but I don't think he will be able to handle the power or the BJJ of Leben and I think Leben will have worked on his takedown defense considering he is fighting a 3 time D1 wrestling champ [-X

I think Leben wins.

[thatoneguy]

wrestling is a great start for an mma carrer ( brock lesner josh koshceck rashad evans) not to mention all the guys that are wanting a good carrerr in mma from wrestling t-wood ben askren.. but the the thing is with Jake Rosholt he was supposed to be the next big thing. i think he beats leban just cause wrestling but if leban can catch him its lights out.. but i dont see rosholt beating any top contendor at 185 such as anderson silva dan henderson rich franklin or michael bisping so even with a win here he wont go far.. but i hope he prooves me wrong

[Louden]

Stillman, I wouldn't listen too much to any Ranking system that goes over 20.

Do I thnk Leben wins this? Yes. Do I think it is a mismatch? Meh... hard to say. Certainly Jake is very far ahead of Chris in terms of wrestling skill, and Leben isn't known for his technical genius off of his back, so it is conceivable that Jake pulls off the upset. Perhaps you just want Jake given fights he is supposed to win? This is an opportunity for him, as well as a good measuring stick as to where he stands.

Look at it this way Stillman, Jake took the fight. I doubt he believes this fight is outside of his ability to win it. I don't think it is reasonable to assume that if he had declined this fight due to the difference in experience that Joe Silva or Dana White would have cut him. That is a fair reason to decline the fight. Maybe I am wrong, but I just don't see Dana and Company as being that brutal.

[stillman]

Stillman, I wouldn't listen too much to any Ranking system that goes over 20.

I don't, just making a point.

Do I thnk Leben wins this? Yes. Do I think it is a mismatch? Meh... hard to say. Certainly Jake is very far ahead of Chris in terms of wrestling skill, and Leben isn't known for his technical genius off of his back, so it is conceivable that Jake pulls off the upset

If Jake pulls off an upset this will be an extremely boring fight with Jake laying on top of Leben for 3 rounds :roll:

Perhaps you just want Jake given fights he is supposed to win? This is an opportunity for him, as well as a good measuring stick as to where he stands.

Not at all, but I do think that some of the lower ranked guys I mentioned above would be a better match up for him and would build on his credibility as a fighter, not hurt it.

Where does his measuring stick say he stands if he loses and ends up 0-2 in the UFC? Just another wanna be? Oops, too much, too soon, back to the drawing board? How many UFC stars started out 0-2?

Look at it this way Stillman, Jake took the fight. I doubt he believes this fight is outside of his ability to win it. I don't think it is reasonable to assume that if he had declined this fight due to the difference in experience that Joe Silva or Dana White would have cut him. That is a fair reason to decline the fight. Maybe I am wrong, but I just don't see Dana and Company as being that brutal.

I'm not exactly sure of what you are trying to say here?? If you don't think Dana and Company aren't brutal about their business, you're kidding yourself.

[Louden]

How many UFC stars started out 0-2?

Never really thought about it, but Patrick Cote comes to mind. 0-4 to start with. Hendo went 0-2 since his return to the UFC after a long hiatus. Pete Sell was thrown in with Phil Baroni for his first fight, which he was the underdog and won. He then went 0-4 in his next 4 before finally winning his 2nd UFC fight. it's not unheard of.

In regards to Dana White and Company being brutal... no, I don't think they are half as brutal as their reputation states. If you stand in their way, YES they are brutal. If you cause a stink, YES they are brutal. But if you work with them they are very good to you.

[stillman]

I don't think they are half as brutal as their reputation states

Why would you doubt it?

[stillman]

Patrick Cote comes to mind. 0-4 to start with

and one of his losses was to Leben #-o Thank you very much.

Hendo went 0-2 since his return to the UFC after a long hiatus

His first two fights were against Rampage and Anderson Silva....hmmm....with his resume he should have taken those fights.

Pete Sell was thrown in with Phil Baroni for his first fight, which he was the underdog and won. He then went 0-4 in his next 4 before finally winning his 2nd UFC fight.

Since then he beat Josh Burkman and lost to Matt Brown (3-1 ufc). To recap he is 2-5 and most likely won't be fighting on any major cards coming up. (my opinion)

After his first loss to Quarry he dropped out and fought in a smaller venue for a while before trying to come back into the ufc, then came back and lost some more.

I'd like to see Jake Rosholt fight Ed Herman....that would be an interesting bout.

[Louden]

Okay Stillman. :roll:

[stillman]

Okay Stillman. :roll:

Okay Louden :roll:

My original point was that Jake had not done enough to earn a shot at someone with Leben's resume. My opinion is that there is a lot of politics that goes on behind the scenes when doing the match making. Someone owes someone else a favor, etc., etc.

It would be a shame for Jake's career to get knocked off the track by trying to bite off too much too soon.

We were able to agree that we both think Leben will win :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Louden]

You asked me which UFC stars started out 0-2 and became stars later. I named a few off of the top of my head to answer your question. You then start crapping on the answers I gave. I wasn't excusing this fight, I was answering the question you asked. And when bringing up Cote you stated that Leben ALSO beat him as if that is a point that has any relevence. For Cote became a star AFTER Leben beat him. If Cote can do it i don't see why Rosholt cannot.

I have not once denied that this is a very big hurdle at this stage of Jake's career. I am saying that it isn't as bad of a mismatch as you keep trying to push, acting like it is absolutely absurd the match is happening.

I can totally see Jake winning this fight. Depending on how the odds add up, if they favor Leben too much I might just lay money down on Jake.

[stillman]

You asked me which UFC stars started out 0-2 and became stars later

The question I actually asked was how many ufc stars do you know that started out 0-2, of the 3 fighters you listed only one fit the criteria of the question asked :roll: and that was Patrick Cote who now owns a ufc record of 4-5.

Whether or not he is a UFC star is a matter of opinion. He might be more famous from whom he has lost to as opposed to who he has beaten.

Who of the following was his biggest win?
Scott Smith, Kendall Grove, Drew McFedries, Ricardo Almeida.

Henderson actually won his first two fights and Sell won his first as well.

So I was really only crapping on one answer as the other two did not apply to the original question #-o

I am saying that it isn't as bad of a mismatch as you keep trying to push, acting like it is absolutely absurd the match is happening.

In my opinion it IS absurd that he got this match with an 0-1 record after getting choked out in 63 seconds in his first ufc bout. I think he would be better served fighting a few fights with guys like Ed Herman or Patrick Cote before he gets into the cage with a Leben.

I think the match making process is suspect at the very least. (which was my point) 8)

[Retired]

The biggest wn of Patrck Cote's carreer was over Ricardo Almeida....by far. This win is what earned him his title shot. If Ricardo had won this fight then he would have got the fight with Anderson Silva.

[stillman]

The biggest wn of Patrck Cote's carreer was over Ricardo Almeida....by far. This win is what earned him his title shot. If Ricardo had won this fight then he would have got the fight with Anderson Silva.

You're right...that was his biggest win. But I still don't understand how fighters with weak resume's get title shots unless it's supposed to be a gimme for the champ. If that's true I think it would cheapen the sport. (just my opinion)If not then there must not be any rhyme or reason to the match making.

In this case it's not a title fight, it's putting an 0-1 fighter into the ring with an 8-4 fighter who has had title fight experience.

Smells.....fishy. #-o (also my opinion)

[Retired]

what other fighters with weak resumes have earned title shots? The champ has to defend and for some champs that have already ran through the competition it is hard to find a contneder that hasn't already been beaten. Examples of this would be champions that have defended more than one time like Matt Hughes, Chuck Liddell, Anderson Silva, Fedor etc... Patrick Cote is a good fighter and some of his losses were at 205 not 185. Before his fight with Anderson Silva, Patrick Cote had won 5 straight. Four of which came in the UFC. Scott Smith, Jason Day, Kendall Grove, Drew Mcfedreiss, and Ricardo Almeida. His losses to Chris Leben, Tito Ortiz and Joe Doerkson all occured three to four earlier.

[Retired]

ok Matt Serra maybe. but other than that i mean.

[stillman]

what other fighters with weak resumes have earned title shots?

You know maybe I'm wrong, but I would consider a fighter with a 4-4 record to have an "average" resume.

In other words a "weak" record for a chance at a title shot. I would think that to earn a title shot you should at least have a winning record against some higher ranked fighters. (my opinion)

Maybe all of the fighters are just so good that any of them could win a title or a fight on any given day no matter what their record is or who they are matched up with, :oops: my bad. #-o

Go Jake, kick Leben's butt! =D>

[thatoneguy]

its not like this fight is a title fight.. its not even a main event fight. imo chris leban isint even that good.. i mean dont get me wrong he has heavy hands but other than that he isnt very good. the only reason hes main stream is tuf 1.

and the reason patrick cote got the fight with anderson was because anderson was destroying everyone in his way so why not throw someone in there that just won a big fight.. same with forest he got a shot after he beat shogun. and the reason matt sera got a shot was he won the ultimate fighter.

[stillman]

its not like this fight is a title fight

I never said it was, all I said was that I didn't think Jake had a strong enough record at 0-1 in the ufc to earn a fight with Leben who has an 8-4 record in the ufc. If he loses and goes 0-2, it does nothing for his career, if he wins, well your guess is as good as mine. The question will be can he keep getting wins at that level? I just thought he should fight and try to get some wins against some lower ranked guys first.

Just my humble opinion.

[Louden]

its not like this fight is a title fight

I never said it was, all I said was that I didn't think Jake had a strong enough record at 0-1 in the ufc to earn a fight with Leben who has an 8-4 record in the ufc. If he loses and goes 0-2, it does nothing for his career, if he wins, well your guess is as good as mine. The question will be can he keep getting wins at that level? I just thought he should fight and try to get some wins against some lower ranked guys first.

Just my humble opinion.

People said the same thing about Lesnar vs. Couture as well as many others.

Depending on how much the odds favor Leben, this might be a smart bet to place money on Jake. If the odds aren't that heavily favoring Leben, than Chris is the smart bet. Remember, Leben was controlled soundly by a very inexperienced Koscheck, who is a small 170 lber who could possibly make 155 (said it himself). Rosholt is a better wrestler than Josh and is probably a good 30 lbs heavier naturally. I don't think this is a terrible mismatch. If a 30 lbs lighter, lesser wrestler, with a pro record of 2-0* (at the time) in Koscheck can beat a 14-1* (at the time) Chris Leben, I think that Rosholt has a realistic chance. Do I favor him? No. But neither do I think this is worthy of the stink you are raising.

*Note: Guessing records from memory

It is clear that Stillman is really concerned about Rosholt being cut from the UFC. Maybe he will be if he loses, but if Jake is that good and worthy of being in the UFC, he can always make it back IF HE LOSES. He's still young, is training with a good camp, and can rebuild himself up with numerous wins.

[stillman]

Do I favor him? No. But neither do I think this is worthy of the stink you are raising

So let me get this straight, when I express an opinion of concern about the way ufc fights are matched and throw out some stats to try and prove my point, I am "raising a stink" [-X but when you do the same thing (on any subject) you are having an "intelligent debate" #-o

I see how this works now :lol: :lol: :lol:

And we still both agree that Leben will most likely win :roll:

[Louden]

Stillman =
http://boles.com/called/07/drycry.jpg

:lol:

[stillman]

Stillman =
http://boles.com/called/07/drycry.jpg

:lol:

I resent being compared to a "Red X" :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Louden]

Hmmm...

Stillman=
http://www.openbooktoronto.com/files/images/dawson-crying.jpg

[stillman]

Hmmm...

Stillman=
http://www.openbooktoronto.com/files/images/dawson-crying.jpg

Can't hold up your side of the discussion intelligently so you resort to posting a picture that is somehow supposed to insult me.... :roll: [-X Couldn't even get that right the first time. :roll:

Typical Louden debate. #-o :lol: :lol: :lol:

All I can figure is you must have either been an only child or had a ton of sisters :lol: when you don't get your way you start calling names :oops: :lol: :lol:

[thatoneguy]

Hmmm...

Stillman=
http://www.openbooktoronto.com/files/images/dawson-crying.jpg

:lol:

[Louden]

Stillman, how would you prefer me to "better explain" how much of a baby you are being about Jake Rosholt fighting Leben? I mean seriously... you're obviously really upset that Jake has to fight Chris. With this thread, the numerous posts, the conspiracy theories, and "fairness" complaints... it's obvious that you are really torn up about the fact that one professional fighter must fight another. No, it's not just that. After all you didn't complain that Matt Hamill had to fight Bisping and Rich Franklin despite having 4 and 6 fights at the time... so apparantly your concern seems very tied to Jake Rosholt.... its all starting to make sense... :razz:

[Retired]

Burn!

Louden= "Hey Stillman I was wondering if you could hold my hot coffee for me?"

Stillman-"Sure Louden I will hold your burning hot coffee."

Louden="Stillman, I was wondering if you could tell me what time it is?"

Stillman="O it burns!!!!!!!!!"

im jk the dawson creek picture is priceless though.

[stillman]

Burn!

Louden= "Hey Stillman I was wondering if you could hold my hot coffee for me?"

Stillman-"Sure Louden I will hold your burning hot coffee."

Louden="Stillman, I was wondering if you could tell me what time it is?"

Stillman="O it burns!!!!!!!!!"

im jk the dawson creek picture is priceless though.

The picture is pretty funny, it's just ironic that it's Louden posting it! :lol:

Actually the conversation would go more like this:

Louden-"Hey Stillman I was wondering if you could hold my hot coffee for me?

Stillman- "No, but can you tell me what time it is?

Louden-"O it burns"!!!!! #-o

[DaNutt]

Burn!

Louden= "Hey Stillman I was wondering if you could hold my hot coffee for me?"

Stillman-"Sure Louden I will hold your burning hot coffee."

Louden="Stillman, I was wondering if you could tell me what time it is?"

Stillman="O it burns!!!!!!!!!"

im jk the dawson creek picture is priceless though.

The picture is pretty funny, it's just ironic that it's Louden posting it! :lol:

Actually the conversation would go more like this:

Louden-"Hey Stillman I was wondering if you could hold my hot coffee for me?

Stillman- "No, but can you tell me what time it is?

Louden-"O it burns"!!!!! #-o

oh my!!!!!!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I really see this in the natural happening :lol: :lol: :lol:

[stillman]

Stillman, how would you prefer me to "better explain" how much of a baby you are being about Jake Rosholt fighting Leben?

Louden, I will type this r-e-a-l slow so you can understand :oops:

I could care less who Jake fights. (You with me so far?)

My POINT (which I have explained several times) is about the match making process and how fighters earn an upper level fight. Certainly a UFC record of 0-1 and losing by getting choked out in 63 seconds is not very impressive, agreed?

Obviously, you don't have any insight into the actual process either or you would have explained it to me. It seems that all you have is your opinion.

You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine (mine doesn't have agree with yours). But it wasn't me who started calling names when my answers got crapped on.....just saying :oops: :roll: :lol:

it's obvious that you are really torn up about the fact that one professional fighter must fight another.

Okay genius explain how you came up with this one? (I mean since my son is a professional MMA fighter)

You can call more names now (or try to post pictures) :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Louden]

Louden, I will type this r-e-a-l slow so you can understand :oops:

Perhaps one day you can explain to me how you typing your message b-low in a slower pace can be seen by me. :?

I could care less who Jake fights. (You with me so far?)

My POINT (which I have explained several times) is about the match making process and how fighters earn an upper level fight. Certainly a UFC record of 0-1 and losing by getting choked out in 63 seconds is not very impressive, agreed?

I got that, but I didn't see you complaining about this happening to Matt Hamill. I didn't see you complaining about this when a UFC newcomer was fed to Roger Huerta numerous times. I didn't see you complaining about this when Dos Santos was matched up with Fabricio Werdum.

So either you are just now built up to boiling point after hearing about this one match up, or you are biased in favor of Jake. Or, perhaps you were oblivious on just how common this is and this was the first time you noticed it.

Obviously, you don't have any insight into the actual process either or you would have explained it to me. It seems that all you have is your opinion.

At least my opinion isn't full of
http://my247.com.au/247venue_images/8011-2007926-wine_tasting1.jpg

:twisted:

You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine (mine doesn't have agree with yours). But it wasn't me who started calling names when my answers got crapped on.....just saying

Awwww...

Okay genius explain how you came up with this one? (I mean since my son is a professional MMA fighter){

This is sarcasm:
:smt019

and this, is your head beneath it:
:smt017

[stillman]

I got that

Louden concedes the point :shock: =D>

I didn't see you complaining about this happening to Matt Hamill. I didn't see you complaining about this when a UFC newcomer was fed to Roger Huerta numerous times. I didn't see you complaining about this when Dos Santos was matched up with Fabricio Werdum.

So either you are just now built up to boiling point after hearing about this one match up, or you are biased in favor of Jake. Or, perhaps you were oblivious on just how common this is and this was the first time you noticed it.

Let me ask you a question....were any of these match ups posted on this forum recently? #-o If they were I sure didn't see them.

Louden condedes second point by admitting that he doesn't have any actual insight into the match making process, only his opinion. :roll:

As for my opinion being full of wine, it wasn't me who started calling names when my answers got crapped on, it was you.

Louden you are the Connoisseur of wine on this board, a spoiled brat, when you don't get your way, you either start calling names or you put the person who isn't agreeing with you on your ignore list. Now take your ball and go home. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Louden]

Louden concedes the point :shock: =D>

I said only that I understood what your point was, not that you have a point. C'mon Stillman, that was pretty obvious. :roll: #-o :lol:

Let me ask you a question....were any of these match ups posted on this forum recently? #-o If they were I sure didn't see them.

So you are admitting that you have no idea how often these types of match ups occur? Don't you think you should educate yourself about this before pouring your wine? :smt075

Louden condedes second point by admitting that he doesn't have any actual insight into the match making process, only his opinion. :roll:

Last I checked neither of us are employed at Zuffa, so that would pretty much make it difficult to have informed insight on the match making process. Which needless to say leaves us both with our opinions. The difference is my opinion is one of acceptence and yours is one of complaint. Would you like some of this to go with your wine?

http://www.savvyhousekeeping.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/cheese.jpg

As for my opinion being full of wine, it wasn't me who started calling names when my answers got crapped on, it was you.

From the beginning you rolled your eyes anytime someone said something you didn't agree with regarding this match, and wouldn't let go of this idea that Jake wasn't getting the fair shake here. Last I checked Jake is a professional fighter who has the ability to accept or decline this fight. He didn't think twice. Clearly he believes he can repeat or improve upon Koscheck's model of beating Leben and make a name for himself doing it. I think it is safe to say that he is pleased with this opportunity and believes he will pull it off. Not sure why you feel the need to continually beat a dead horse regarding this match up, much less roll your eyes at every comment that wasn't in agreement with your vag-fest. Hence you being a big baby. If you weren't you would have been able to discuss this without your mocking tone or at least been able to take being ribbed on without getting upset.

Now you take my ball and go home yourself!

http://www.sim06.net/slike/funnypics/soccer-face-smash.jpg

8)

[stillman]

Guess I touched a nerve :roll: :roll: :roll: you better pour some water on that keyboard son! :lol: :lol: :lol:

I said only that I understood what your point was, not that you have a point.

What you said was "I got that". (Shows concession to the point)

Louden wrote:
Let me ask you a question....were any of these match ups posted on this forum recently? If they were I sure didn't see them.

So you are admitting that you have no idea how often these types of match ups occur? Don't you think you should educate yourself about this before pouring your wine?

You never answered my question, you just tried to change the subject. You do that a lot.

To answer yours, I would say that these matches occur less than 10% of the time. (In my opinion, not a lot) They just showed UFC 97, assuming we are proceeding in a numerical order and there are 10 matches for every show (there's probably more per show) that would be 970 total matches. Can you come up with 97 times (10%) that an 0-1 UFC record fighter fought an upper level 8-4 UFC fighter?

Last I checked neither of us are employed at Zuffa, so that would pretty much make it difficult to have informed insight on the match making process. Which needless to say leaves us both with our opinions. The difference is my opinion is one of acceptence and yours is one of complaint.

Louden concedes another point, (you're not very good at this are you) as far as your opinion being one of acceptance, I would have to ask by who? Certainly not me, I think you spend most of your time trying to convince other people how smart you are. Using the math above do you think you have a greater than 10% acceptance rate of your opinion? :lol: :lol: :lol: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Since neither of us has insight into the match making process, my opinion that there could be some less than desirable practices going on at times would have some merit until proven wrong, which by the way you haven't done. [-X

I didn't say that Jake shouldn't take the fight. I speculated that he didn't earn it. All this and we still agree Leben will win :roll: :P

I hate these long posts #-o

You gonna put me on your ignore list now or just post more pictures and call more names? :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Louden]

Guess I touched a nerve :roll: :roll: :roll: you better pour some water on that keyboard son! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Ha! You couldn't touch a gay priest, much less my nerves geezer!

What you said was "I got that". (Shows concession to the point)

You keep telling yourself that. In the little world you ego creates for you, go right on and believe I was actually conceding you had a point. Kind of like how you conceal your low self esteem with big talk. :lol:

You never answered my question, you just tried to change the subject. You do that a lot.

Oh, I'm sorry, I thought it was rhetorical. No, we have not discussed those particular matches. Your parade of complaints-as you stated multiple times-was "unfair match making" that the "fishy" and "brutal" UFC put together here, yet you only mention Rosholt/Leben. If you were really just trying to build a case for bad matchmaking, it would make sense that you would use the numerous other examples available to you. You didn't. You just went on a "Poor Jake" rant over multiple pages. Methinks you might have a man-crush on shaggy haired Rosholt...

To answer yours, I would say that these matches occur less than 10% of the time. (In my opinion, not a lot)

Thanks for your random-and useless-guesstimate on the %. :roll:

They just showed UFC 97, assuming we are proceeding in a numerical order and there are 10 matches for every show (there's probably more per show) that would be 970 total matches. Can you come up with 97 times (10%) that an 0-1 UFC record fighter fought an upper level 8-4 UFC fighter?

Since you failed to clarify, I am going to assume you are not actually asking me to look for just 0-1 fighters taking on 8-4 fighters. I will assume what you MEANT to ask for are guys newer to the UFC being faced with an opponent that on paper they appear to be overmatched by.

Osterneck (0-0 lost to Rosholt) was thrown in with Jorge Rivera
Matt Horwich (0-1) was thrown in with Ricardo Almeida (who lost a split decision for a title fight to Cote)
dos Anjos (0-1) was thrown in with Tyson Griffin
Mike Patt (0-1) was thrown in with Brandon Vera
Mark Munoz (0-0) was thrown in with Matt Hamill

That's just 3 events and 5 easy examples.

Louden concedes another point, (you're not very good at this are you)

Not very good at what? I agree that neither of us are employed by Zuffa and that makes me not good? :? I guess this makes sense in Retardsandwhichville.

as far as your opinion being one of acceptance, I would have to ask by who? Certainly not me, I think you spend most of your time trying to convince other people how smart you are. Using the math above do you think you have a greater than 10% acceptance rate of your opinion? :lol: :lol: :lol: :roll: :roll: :roll:

First off, this has nothing to do with your apparant mancrush on Rosholt. You weren't defending the "10%", you defended only Jake, and repeatedly. :lol:

Secondly, you picked that 10% figure, not me. Not sure how you got it twisted that I must adhere to your standard of 10% to make my point. :roll:

Thirdly, I did a quick search of the last 3 events and found 5 examples. 5 examples per 33 fights. That's more than 10%, and that's to the standard YOU picked, not me. :oops:

So your point I must say:
http://www.randomn3ss.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/fail.jpg

You're not very good at this are you? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Since neither of us has insight into the match making process, my opinion that there could be some less than desirable practices going on at times would have some merit until proven wrong, which by the way you haven't done. [-X

I have not tried to prove that point wrong numbnuts. #-o I am saying you are a whiner for crying about it. Alzheimers much?

I didn't say that Jake shouldn't take the fight. I speculated that he didn't earn it. All this and we still agree Leben will win :roll: :P

Wrong again. I agree that it is more likely, I didn't agree that he would.

I hate these long posts #-o

Because thinking tires you and distracts you from eating Happy Meals.

You gonna put me on your ignore list now or just post more pictures and call more names? :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Why would I ignore you? You're incompetence is amusing! :lol: :lol:

[stillman]

Didn't touch a nerve huh? LMAO at Louden.. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Only 94 more events to research :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: The results might be as long as one of your posts. :lol: :lol:

Remember this Louden, your opinion (and mine) + $1.04 will get you a cup of coffee, nothing more.

You take this stuff way to seriously and when you feel you are losing a discussion there is no limit to the amount of name calling you will stop at, which is very child like, immature, and akin how a spoiled brat would act.....someone needs a nap, just saying. :roll: :lol: :lol:

One last thing, just a grammatical correction, I believe you meant to use "your" instead of the abbreviation for "you are" when you were talking about my incompetence. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: how appropriate #-o

[Louden]

Didn't touch a nerve huh? LMAO at Louden.. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

That little stringy thing you're touching Stillborn, that's your peepee, not a nerve. Here, see for yourself:

http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/3777880/2/istockphoto_3777880-magnifying-glass.jpg

:shock: :oops: :lol:

Only 94 more events to research :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: The results might be as long as one of your posts. :lol: :lol:

Why would I spend time researching 94 more events for a random statistic that your pulled out of your rear like you were checking for Cardinal Peter? Your statistic and measurement is imaginary and I never agreed to it. But regardless quick research exposed your assertion as wrong. :roll: :oops: :lol:

You take this stuff way to seriously and when you feel you are losing a discussion there is no limit to the amount of name calling you will stop at, which is very child like, immature, and akin how a spoiled brat would act.....someone needs a nap, just saying. :roll: :lol: :lol:

The only thing I am losing when listening to you is my IQ points. Luckily though, after losing about 15 points, I still am a good 40 points above you. 8)

One last thing, just a grammatical correction, I believe you meant to use "your" instead of the abbreviation for "you are" when you were talking about my incompetence. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: how appropriate #-o

Of course I know how to spell "you are" as "you're" as I have done so correctly throughout this entire thread. That slip up is just another indication that speaking to you is commiting genocide to my brain cells. I anticipate more lapses in spelling the longer we continue this discussion.

[stillman]

You just went on a "Poor Jake" rant over multiple pages. Methinks you might have a man-crush on shaggy haired Rosholt...

How do you interpret me saying Jake didn't earn this fight into me defending him and going on a poor jake rant? #-o

Osterneck (0-0 lost to Rosholt) was thrown in with Jorge Rivera
Matt Horwich (0-1) was thrown in with Ricardo Almeida (who lost a split decision for a title fight to Cote)
dos Anjos (0-1) was thrown in with Tyson Griffin
Mike Patt (0-1) was thrown in with Brandon Vera
Mark Munoz (0-0) was thrown in with Matt Hamill

I'm not sure what your point is, as far as I can tell these fights weren't posted on this discussion board so I didn't comment on them. Jake's record and weak performance in his first fight is what made me think about it. You do know that none of the newbies you quoted won, right? If I didn't know better I would think you were trying to help me prove my point :lol:

stillman wrote:
I didn't say that Jake shouldn't take the fight. I speculated that he didn't earn it. All this and we still agree Leben will win

Wrong again. I agree that it is more likely, I didn't agree that he would.

What you actually said was, "Do I think Leben will win? Yes" (I think this means you agree that he would) :oops:

All this name calling and picture posting because you didn't like that I used an emoticon??? :roll:

You may want to see a shrink to see what causes you pent up anger, I'm guessing it's repressed gay feelings because you really seem to be preoccupied with that and wee wee size too. Are you over compensating? :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Louden]

Osterneck (0-0 lost to Rosholt) was thrown in with Jorge Rivera
Matt Horwich (0-1) was thrown in with Ricardo Almeida (who lost a split decision for a title fight to Cote)
dos Anjos (0-1) was thrown in with Tyson Griffin
Mike Patt (0-1) was thrown in with Brandon Vera
Mark Munoz (0-0) was thrown in with Matt Hamill

I'm not sure what your point is, as far as I can tell these fights weren't posted on this discussion board so I didn't comment on them. Jake's record and weak performance in his first fight is what made me think about it. You do know that none of the newbies you quoted won, right? If I didn't know better I would think you were trying to help me prove my point :lol:

Those were a few. I can do more. How about dos Santos (0-0) being brought in to face Top 10 Fabricio Werdum and KOing him? Oops! How about Brock Lesnar (1-1) being brought in to face Randy Couture? Oops. How about Houston Alexander being brought in to face Keith Jardine? Oops. :lol:

What you actually said was, "Do I think Leben will win? Yes" (I think this means you agree that he would) :oops:

Yes, I think he is the favored fighter and is more likely to win. That doesn't mean I am taking the stance of "Leben will win", it means I am acknowledging I think he is more likely to. I believe I also stated that if the odds are heavily in favor of Chris, I might lay money on Jake.

You may want to see a shrink to see what causes you pent up anger, I'm guessing it's repressed gay feelings because you really seem to be preoccupied with that and wee wee size too. Are you over compensating? :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'm not angry, I am amused with you. It's like watching a midget with a severe case of little man syndrome. Funny, but frightening at the same time.

And your guess about gay feelings is also wrong. I believe you are Projecting again. I am merely concerned that you might not be Casey's real dad. I mean look at the athletic talent he has, he couldn't have come from you unless he got his moms genetics. :lol:

[stillman]

And your guess about gay feelings is also wrong. I believe you are Projecting again. I am merely concerned that you might not be Casey's real dad. I mean look at the athletic talent he has, he couldn't have come from you unless he got his moms genetics.

YOU are the one that keeps going back to the gay stuff

You say things and then say you didn't say them, when you are called on it you start name calling and tossing insults around. Are these the traits of an intelligent person?

As far as being Casey's real father, you are one really messed up f-head [-X

How much lower can you sink?

[Louden]

YOU are the one that keeps going back to the gay stuff

I'm just concerned about you, that's all. I want you to be happy, so I plan to vote FOR gay marriage in your honor. 8)

As far as being Casey's real father, you are one really messed up f-head [-X

How much lower can you sink?

Do I sink any lower by suggesting that I am Casey's father? \:D/

[stillman]

I'm just concerned about you, that's all. I want you to be happy, so I plan to vote FOR gay marriage in your honor.

That's okay, my vote will just cancel yours out. :roll:

Do I sink any lower by suggesting that I am Casey's father?

You couldn't possibly sink any lower. I've lost ANY respect that I had previously had for you. :?

All this started because you didn't care for my condescending emoticon and you not liking getting your a$$ handed to you by an old man. You solution to not be able to come up with a viable answer to my assertion that the UFC match making process is not totally above board, is to call me names.

Should we tell everyone what your real name is so that you can actually claim the crap you posted?

I still think that the match making in the UFC is suspect and you haven't suggested ANYTHING to sway my assessment. You can keep up the name calling and insult smoke screen but it doesn't change anything, just makes you look like an a$$. [-X

[Louden]

You couldn't possibly sink any lower. I've lost ANY respect that I had previously had for you. :?

Looks like somebody is taking a little ribbing personally. :(

All this started because you didn't care for my condescending emoticon

Do what?... it didn't start with your condescending emoticon? It only started with the response to the condescending emoticon? :?

I'll take your emoticon and raise you a decepticon

http://www.garmentdistrict.com/store/popculture/transformers/decepticon_sm.jpg

...and you not liking getting your a$$ handed to you by an old man.

Textbook self delusion. What was that 10% rule again? :lol:

You solution to not be able to come up with a viable answer to my assertion that the UFC match making process is not totally above board, is to call me names.

LOL! This is your example of how you are handing my ass to me? :lol: Here is what you (somehow) don't get Stillborn. I never once took the side that the UFC match making is always equal and fair. So why do you expect me to argue against you here? I never said, "Hey, the UFC is fair in it's matchmaking!" What i said is that you were being a bit of a whiner about it.

Since you seem to be taking all of this more personally than I thougth, let's recap so you can better understand how we got here:

-I stated that Jake can win this fight if he fights smart, but if he doesn't then it's lights out.
-You then started complaining about how a 0-1 in teh UFC Rosholt fights Leben who is 8-4 in the UFC, although you stated Leben's full record of 18-5. You then said it was "fishy".
-To me it seemed that you were suggesting a complete mismatch since you were comparing Jake and Chris's records which showed Jake's to be inferior, and then called it "fishy". I then stated that Leben isn't exactly a top tier fighter and he has struggled in the past with fighters who had superior wrestling backgrounds, so this should be interesting to see,meaning with the style match up, Jake could very well be in this fight. Note that I am not saying that you are wrong in assuming Chris will win, I was just suggesting that it wasn't a total mismatch as you seemed to suggest.
-You then mocked my comment by further suggesting this to be a mismatch by commenting on how Leben fought his way into higher profile fights and then rolled your eyes with the emoticon.
-To me, that's you saying my comment is stupid, for why roll your eyes at me. No big deal though, I figured I would just make my point that this is a winnable match for Jake. I explain that Jake is far superior to Chris in terms of wrestling skill and that Chris isn't known for technical superiority from his back, so considering the style match ups, this isn't exactly an easy hand-me fight for Chris. He could conceivably lose. Seems like a fair assessment of the fight to me.
-You then counter with more mocking eye rolling after saying IF Jake wins, it will be boring. You then continue to say that the UFC should have picked lesser fighters for Jake at this point in his career. After that you ask me which ufc stars have gone 0-2 in the beginning of their UFC career only to brought back, and then tell me I am kidding myself if I don't think Dana and Co are brutal about their business.

So far I have stayed on point and have not mocked you once. So far you've rolled your eyes twice at things I have said and told me I am kidding myself as well. Your tone has been very condescending so far while I have stayed on the topic and have not mocked you or called you names yet. Not once have you acknowledged that stylistically this does appear to be a match Jake is capable of winning, despite the evidence to show Leben consistantly struggles with superior wrestlers (see smaller and lesser wrestler Koscheck for example).

Moving on:

-You asked me which ufc stars started out 0-2. You didn't place any other specifics on it, you just asked me "Which stars started out 0-2?" so I responded by saying that I had never really thought about it before, but Patrick Cote comes to mind as he was 0-4 to start his UFC career before turning it around with 4 straight wins andand earning a shot at the title. I also mentioned that Pete Sell was thrown to the wolves against Phil Baroni in his UFC debut, won, and then went 0-4 in his next 4 before given yet another chance against a guy with a far superior UFC career (Josh Burkman) and he WON. Thus, I answered the question you placed before me and I have not mocked you once. I even provided you with an example of a guy coming into the UFC as a HUGE underdog who won. So far I feel I have done a good job stating my case that this isn't a ridiculously unfair match up between Jake and Chris. In fact, it should be obvious that it isn't ridiculously unfair, thus I see no reason why you should further drag on the debate. These types of fights are commonplace, and upsets happen all of the time. How do you respond to my fairly stated comments?
-You quote my Cote example and then you say that he lost to Leben and use the smacking of the head emoticon which mean "Doh!" or in other words "I screwed up". I answered the question you stated. You never asked me to name a 0-2 fighter that Chris lost to, you asked me to name one star who had gone 0-2. I did that, and now you mocked my example which more than perfectly answered your question.
-At this point it became clear to me you were arguing for arguments sake. You weren't actually listening otherwise you wouldn't have mocked my answer which more than perfectly fit to your question. So, I planned on bowing out of the conversation and said, "Okay Stillman" and rolled my eyes. That's how I pictured it at this point, a stupid conversation. I provided numerous examples of why this isn't a complete mismatch, I provided examples of similar matches in the past where the underdog won, and I answered your question to name a fighter who had gone 0-2 and still stayed in the UFC. After all of that you never once strayed from the assertion that this was an unfair match up and you mocked my points several times even when I answered your question perfectly within the perameters you stated. In what way was I supposed to see this as a decent conversation anymore? It was completely apparant that you thought my points were stupid and you weren't going to listen to anything. So I rolled my eyes and said, "Okay".


Does it end there? Does Stillman let the conversation end? Nope.

-You then say "Okay Louden" and roll your eyes back at me. Apparently only you can roll your eyes at people, but if they do it to you then it's cause to respond. You then reiterate that Jake has not done enough at this point to earn a fight with Leben before laughing about how we both agree that Leben will win (something that isn't true. I believe Leben is MORE LIKELY to win, but I don't agree that he WILL.)
-So at this point I try (without mocking you or namecalling) to explain that all I did with the Cote example was answer your question and then you quoted my examples and started trying to tear them apart. You never stated you wanted any stronger criteria, or any other criteria PERIOD. You JUST asked for a fighter who went 0-2 and came back to the UFC. I answered it. So I am trying to explain to you that you are being argumentitive by trying to tear apart my answer that fit more than adequately to your question. So I stated why I think you are being argumentitive and stubborn by attacking my answer to the criteria you stated, and then I go to clarify that I am not against your point if it is that this is a big hurdle for Jake. I am telling you that I agree with you that it is, but I further clarify my stance that all I am saying is that this isn't a HUGE mismatch. It is the kind of match that we tend to see fairly often. It's definitely not an absurd match up, Jake can win this fight. Note, that once again I did not mock you. I am trying to make my point respectfully that this is a fair match up.
-You respond by mocking me some more. You state that only one example met your criteria (Cote) and you rolled your eyes again. I never stated that Hendo and Sell met your criteria perfectly, in fact I explained why they did not. I said Hendo was 0-2 since coming BACK to the UFC, and I explained that Sell started off with a win. I said that AFTER I answered your question with Cote, and I acknowledged that I was just pulling that off of the top of my head. I didn't go research it. You asked me a question and off the top of my head I answered it. I wasn't even trying to argue with you. I thought you wanted an example that fit your criteria and I provided it with only a second or two's worth consideration. Then you went defensive and attack my example and said "Cote now owns a UFC record of 4-5", trying to make a point that Cote isn't a good example. This shows how defensive you were being, well that along with your constant mocking. You never said, "Name a star that is now on top of the UFC who has gone 0-2". You gave me your criteria and Cote fit it. That's the end of it. If you wanted more criteria added, you should do so BEFORE you ask the question, not wait until I answer it perfectly and then come up with more criteria. You then further attack the Cote example. All of this shows me that you aren't wanting to discuss this, you are trying to turn this into a debate. I'm not even sure why, as my only point was that this wasn't a terrible mismatch. I answered your question and now I am being mocked, attacked, and having my answer disected for not fitting criteria you never asked for in the first place.


At this point I bowed out of the conversation for a bit. I then saw two other posters join in.
-Retired tried expressing that Cote's biggest win was Almeida-answering an earlier question Stillman posed, and Stillman reiterated that this is a fishy match up, as in there being a "conspiracy" behind it. They then discuss Cote's credentials and I am left wondering why they are even discussing this, as none of this has anything to do with the question Stillman asked earlier as teh criteria only asked for one UFC Star that started off 0-2. Cote is a perfect example and that should have been the end of it. However now the focus is on disecting Cote to justify this match up being "fishy". It's become very clear that Stillman is really upset about this match up, for why else would he be going on and on about this, even after it has now headed off topic?
-Thatoneguy then chimes in that this isn't a title fight and it isn't even a main event fight. He even states his opinion that Chris isn't all that great, explaining indirectly that this isn't such a mismatch. Stillman pops in again and says that this isn't a fair fight because Jake is 0-1 in the UFC and didn't earn a fight with Chris who is 8-4.
-I come back at this point and make a point that many didn't feel Brock Lesnar (1-1) deserved his fight with Couture (13-5) yet it was made and Lesnar won. Again, I am continuing this discussion without mocking Stillman with words or emoticons. We've made it all of this way and the only time I did anything of the sort was when I was planning on bowing out of the discussion by saying "Okay Stillman" and rolling my eyes. I then go into this match again by explaining that it isn't such an unfair fight because Chris has shown he was susceptible to being beaten by wrestlers in the past, and much smaller wrestlers as well. Kocheck isn't as good at wrestling as Rosholt, and he is a good 30 pounds smaller too. yet despite this he beat Chris with wrestling only. Jake CAN win this. I also state to Stillman's concerns about Jake losing and being cut by sayign that this probably won't happen and even if it does Jake can still fight his way back in. Thus, there isn't a whole lot to worry about here. If Jake deserves to be in the UFC at all, then he will be there. End of story.
-What happens next is MORE mocking from Stillman. You deny making a stink and say you are just having an intelligent discussion, despite mocking me multiple times, claiming unfair match making despite this type of match being a common occurance, and tearing apart my answer of Cote which fit 100% to the criteria you stated making it a very fair answer. You haven't budged an inch or even acknowledged a good point to me once. And many good points were made. The Cote example. This fight being a style match that gives plenty of hope to Jake. This type of match being commonplace. Jake being able to come back with more wins even IF he loses here. All of these are valid points when raising a stink about how unfair it all is. Not once did you say, "true" or anything, just mocking and challenging every step of the way. You then top it with another rolling of the eyese because I, like you, think that Chris is favored.

I finally retaliate with the mocking.

-Multiple posts later and constant attempts to avoid any mocking from my part despite not getting the same courtesy from you, I post a picture of a guy crying to show how I think you are acting about this match. It has been one long line of complaints and excuses without one single instance of you acknowledging anything, thus I see you as a whiner. I post a pic to show you what I think of you after all of this.
-I went though post after post of you ridiculing my points and rolling your eyes at me and yet I continued on without resorting to such tactics. Now when I finally do resort to posting a pic of a man crying (says the same thing as a crying emoticon, just more graphic) how do you handle it? Do you ignore it and continue on the subject like I did numerous times in response to you? No. You don't ignore it. You then resort to the "Typical Louden" and "you're an only child or had tons of sisters since you call names when you don't get what you want". Wow. I've shown I could ignore your mocking of me throughout the thread to this point, and the minute I give a picture of crying you clearly take it personal and respond with saying I am an only child and stuff. Pot, meet kettle.
-So it's clear at this point to me that you aren't actually debating anything, you've dug trenches and plan to maintain this conspiracy idea of a big time mismatch and/or unfair matchmaking. You also clearly don't think it's wrong to mock people's posts but the minute it happens to you it's time to get pissy. So, from here on out since the discussion is celarly over and you are being hypocritical about being made fun of, I decided to ruffle your feathers and give you the type of "debate" you deserve. A flame war. Now apparently since you are on the losing end of it and are getting more flustered that I would have expected, I'm resporting to trying to explain to you how we got here. I am fairly certain this will be near impossible to drive home as the rest of the discussion has been.

Should we tell everyone what your real name is so that you can actually claim the crap you posted?

I am sure a good majority knows who I am. My name is Mike Copeland.

I still think that the match making in the UFC is suspect and you haven't suggested ANYTHING to sway my assessment.

I have. You just aren't getting it. Let me attempt it again.

IF you quoted multiple examples (and there are TONS) then perhaps you have a point. You could point to Lesnar/Couture, you could point to Hamill/Monoz, you could point to Franklin/Hamill, you could point to Alexander/Jardine, you could point to Serra/GSP, you could point to Vera/Patt, dos Anjos/Griffin, dos Santos/Werdum, Cro Cop/Sanchez, etc, etc, etc. So IF you pointed to at least ONE other example and said, "Look, it seems the UFC sometime matches up a heavily favored fighter with a guy he is expected to beat" then maybe you could say that the match making is suspect.
But you didn't do that. Instead, you went on and on and on and on about one particular fight. Rosholt/Leben. You weren't crusading against mismatches, you were crusading against Rosholt/Leben. I effectively explained numerous times that this fight (the only one you seem to care about) isn't such a mismatch on paper. Sure, Leben has the more experience, but the style match up closes that gap considerably. I've already backed that assessment up by showing you how a much more inexperienced Josh Koscheck (2-0 in MMA) beat a much more experienced Chris Leben (10-1 in MMA) purely based on wrestling alone. Rosholt is more experienced in MMA now than Koscheck was back then. While Leben also improved, it must also be considered that Koscheck was a blown up 170 lber (said he can make 155) and Rosholt is a big 185 lber. So the size and wrestling skill is actually greater with Rosholt than Koscheck. Thus, this isn't such a mismatch as you suggest. While Leben should still be favored, this is not a match you should cry foul on half as much as you have.
IF your point is that the UFC makes mismatches from time to time there are FAR better examples to choose from, yet you ignored them and chose this particular fight. The Lesnar/Couture one comes to mind. Or Werdum/dos Santos. Or Vera/Patt.
So don't go along and act like your sole motivation here is mismatches. You have had plenty of time to present that case and you never did. Instead you whined about Jake Rosholt only. I think it is safe to say that you have a special concern for this particular match, and as such, this is why you have lost this debate, for this match is a bad example and I have sufficiently explained why.

Do mismatches happen? Of course. Mismatches also turn in favor of the underdog. Look at Lesnar/Couture. Look at Lauzon/Pulver. Look at dos Santos/Werdum. Look at Serra/GSP. Look at Koscheck/Thiago (not Alves). Jake has looked at this fight, accepted it, and believes he can win. His style match up suggests that it isn't that unlikely either as Koscheck showed us. If I were looking at this fight and I said, "Man, there is no way Jake can win this" then I would say this is a big mismatch. I don't see that at all. I see how he can win and it isn't far fetched either. So since this was your only example, you failed. The best you can really do is say this is a match where one fighter is going to be favored over the other by a fair amount. Not an insurmountable amount, and certainly not like Lauzon/Pulver, Serra/GSP, etc.

You can keep up the name calling and insult smoke screen but it doesn't change anything, just makes you look like an a$$. [-X

http://blogs.venturacountystar.com/dennert/archives/miniature-donkey-0015.jpg

Don't see the resemblance.

[thatoneguy]

after scamming threw all these posts this is my opinion:

stillman you have the right to think this is a "mismatch" or "unfair" fight. however you kinda did go a little hay wire about the whole thing, all louden was doing was giving you points and facts of other fights like this one of where and "unproving" fighter fights a "proven" one. and his facts are good he is right about brock lesner, patrick cote, dos anos. and remember jake rosholt is supposed to be the real deal. brock lesner startes out 0-1 fights a "proven" heath herring, and wins easily, then a 1-1 brock lesner fights a hall of famer randy couture. (i didnt hear no complaing about this one) and wins. this fight is not that big of a deal.

Chris leban is imo not that good. and another good point louden made was chris leban (who had expierance) lost to koscheck ( who had little expierance).

i think Rosholt wins this by submission in rd 1! sound crazy? ya but well see what happens :mrgreen:

[Louden]

after scamming threw all these posts this is my opinion:

stillman you have the right to think this is a "mismatch" or "unfair" fight. however you kinda did go a little hay wire about the whole thing, all louden was doing was giving you points and facts of other fights like this one of where and "unproving" fighter fights a "proven" one. and his facts are good he is right about brock lesner, patrick cote, dos anos.

http://dave.matusiak.org/weblog/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/wonder_woman.jpg

[J E]

Being an internet tough guy/sh*t-talker is almost like being a real tough guy... or something.

[Louden]

Being an internet tough guy/sh*t-talker is almost like being a real tough guy... or something.

http://www.monkeyreview.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/1237436885305.jpg

[Louden]

Stillman, it's okay. I still like you buddy. :-D

http://www.funnyanimalpictures.net/data/media/1/best_friends_5.jpg

[thatoneguy]

Stillman, it's okay. I still like you buddy. :-D

http://www.funnyanimalpictures.net/data/media/1/best_friends_5.jpg

=D>

[stillman]

however you kinda did go a little hay wire about the whole thing, all louden was doing was giving you points and facts of other fights like this one of where and "unproving" fighter fights a "proven" one

Yeah, it was me who went haywire and started calling Louden names and hurling insults :roll:

The only credible response to my point that Rosholt did not earn this fight(not that it is a mis-match or unfair) was from Retired who said, " UFC often gives face guys like Leben a noob after losing to get back on track".

I didn't take the time to read Louden's 10,000 word post above but I am assuming he is trying to make another point :roll: as he types me to death.

You don't have to like me Louden, it's not in the rules. I still win. #-o :lol:

[Louden]

however you kinda did go a little hay wire about the whole thing, all louden was doing was giving you points and facts of other fights like this one of where and "unproving" fighter fights a "proven" one

Yeah, it was me who went haywire and started calling Louden names and hurling insults :roll:

Are you saying that this: :roll: is not an insult?

The only credible response to my point that Rosholt did not earn this fight(not that it is a mis-match or unfair) was from Retired who said, " UFC often gives face guys like Leben a noob after losing to get back on track".

So it's not a credible point that Lesnar didn't earn his fight with Couture? So it's not a credible point that dos Santos didn't earn his fight with Top 10 Fabricio Werdum? It's not a credible point that dos Anjos didn't earn his fight with Tyson Griffin? So it's not a credible point that Lauzon didn't earn a fight with Jens Pulver?

I didn't take the time to read Louden's 10,000 word post above but I am assuming he is trying to make another point :roll: as he types me to death.

Typing you to death might be an inspiring achievement but I was not intending to do that. I was explaining to you why you are a sensitive hypocrite. I never expected you to respond to it although I do believe you read it.

You don't have to like me Louden, it's not in the rules. I still win. #-o :lol:

You win because you say you do. Deep thoughts, by Mr. Stillman. :lol:

[stillman]

you are a sensitive hypocrite

I'm a sensitive hypocrite but you think this :roll: is an insult and worth making crude comments and calling me names over??? You simply have no class and you should be :oops: All that typing trying to make yourself look intelligent just came apart at the seams, huh? :^o

So it's not a credible point that Lesnar didn't earn his fight with Couture? So it's not a credible point that dos Santos didn't earn his fight with Top 10 Fabricio Werdum? It's not a credible point that dos Anjos didn't earn his fight with Tyson Griffin? So it's not a credible point that Lauzon didn't earn a fight with Jens Pulver?

No it's not...all it proves is that it happens (just like the 5 fighters you posted that lost their fights to experienced guys) and you don't know anymore about how the match making process in the UFC works than anyone else. (which you have already admitted).

I do believe you read it.

You can believe that I wouldn't waste my time reading the never ending scrolls of Louden. :roll:

You win because you say you do. Deep thoughts, by Mr. Stillman.

I win because you couldn't make a case that the UFC match making process is not tainted by politics. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Louden]

I'm a sensitive hypocrite but you think this :roll: is an insult and worth making crude comments and calling me names over???

You didn't answer my question. Is this: :roll: an insult?

And while you are at it, is this :smt022 an insult as well?

Can't you answer the question?

No it's not...all it proves is that it happens (just like the 5 fighters you posted that lost their fights to experienced guys)

Actually, dos Santos BEAT Werdum. Lesnar BEAT Couture. Lauzon BEAT Pulver. These are guys that WON against guys that (by your definition) they didn't EARN the right to fight. Nice try though... :lol:

and you don't know anymore about how the match making process in the UFC works than anyone else. (which you have already admitted).

No, I don't know how they do their match-making. I have said this before. It's amusing that you keep bringing this up as if it is some kind of point against me.

I don't know how they go about their match making and that isn't really the point. Your accusation that there is something wrong with matching Leben with Rosholt is the topic, not whether or not I know the intricacies behind why they set it up. My point has nothing to do with that, it has to do with you unnecessarily making a big stink about this fight.

You can believe that I wouldn't waste my time reading the never ending scrolls of Louden. :roll:

You've been doing it this entire thread.

I win because you couldn't make a case that the UFC match making process is not tainted by politics. :lol: :lol: :lol:

A) I never said that there aren't politics involved, so how can I lose to you for not proving a stance I never took to begin with?

B) You haven't made a very good case proving your conspiracy theory. You cite one example that's a poor one at that. There is a plethora of better examples you could have chosen but you failed to do that. A good "lawyer" would have built their case citing multiple examples. You cite one that is pretty weak, and I explained why. See the Koscheck/Leben example.

C) You haven't whined about the UFC "politics", you've whined about Jake Rosholt getting the shaft. It's clear your concern isn't for UFC politics but instead for Jake Rosholt. As stated above, if it was really about UFC politics you could have produced more and better examples than you did.

I give you a D- on your reasoning. I would give you an F but ultimately I do believe that match-ups are made to give certain fighters a chance to build themselves up. It doesn't always work out that way as Lauzon smashed Pulver, dos Santos sent Werdum into next week, etc.

[stillman]

stillman wrote:
No it's not...all it proves is that it happens (just like the 5 fighters you posted that lost their fights to experienced guys)


Actually, dos Santos BEAT Werdum. Lesnar BEAT Couture. Lauzon BEAT Pulver. These are guys that WON against guys that (by your definition) they didn't EARN the right to fight. Nice try though...

Actually, I was talking about the other five fighters and fights you posted before the ones that won. You know, "Osterneck vs Rivera, Horwich vs Almeida, Dos Anjos vs Tyson Griffin, Patt vs Vera, and Munoz vs Hamill", all lost to experienced guys and probably didn't "EARN" the fight.

So it wasn't actually a "nice try", it was another win because you either ignored or didn't care what you previously posted about the guys that lost and just tried to shape the fighters that won into your "point" :roll:

I win again :lol:

I give you a "D" on your reasoning but an "F" on class because you obviously have none. #-o

[T.D.C.Dad]

Saw Casey fight Saturday ,very impressive. Looking very well rounded.

[Louden]

You STILL haven't answered my question. This is the 3rd time I've asked it. Perhaps you can't answer it.

Is this: :smt022 an insult?

Actually, I was talking about the other five fighters and fights you posted before the ones that won. You know, "Osterneck vs Rivera, Horwich vs Almeida, Dos Anjos vs Tyson Griffin, Patt vs Vera, and Munoz vs Hamill", all lost to experienced guys and probably didn't "EARN" the fight.

Yes, I PURPOSEFULLY chose a list of fighters that included underdogs winning AND losing. The example was to show that just because someone is an underdog doesn't mean he can't win. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. It's very obvious that in MMA it is DIFFICULT to know who is going to win a particular match. Sometimes Joe Lauzon KO's Jens Pulver. Sometimes Hamill KO's Munoz. That UNPREDICTABILITY makes it difficult to create "gimme fights", and that is why particular fights like Leben and Rosholt have a lot of thought behind them. You can't ASSUME Leben wins, so the opponant he is given is going to be someone good with potential who could use a big boost such as a win of Chris would give him.

Josh Koscheck was given former UFC Middleweight Champion Dave Menne VERY early in his UFC career. 2nd or 3rd I believe. You could easily argue that Koscheck hadn't "earned" that fight, but what happened anyway? He dominated Menne. You could argue that the last guy Paulo Thiago that KO'd Koscheck didn't "earn" the fight, but that didn't stop him from going out there and KTFO of Josh.

So again, the stink you are rising about Rosholt fighting Leben is a little unfounded. There are examples of fights exactly like this happening ALL THE TIME in MMA and the UFC. Sometimes the underdog loses, sometimes they win. You could wait until we see how Jake does before you cry foul. If he dominates Chris, wins or loses a close fight... it's going to make all of your fussing look stupid.

So it wasn't actually a "nice try", it was another win because you either ignored or didn't care what you previously posted about the guys that lost and just tried to shape the fighters that won into your "point" :roll:

Not surprised you missed the point.

I win again :lol:

Ah, delusions of grandeur.

I give you a "D" on your reasoning but an "F" on class because you obviously have none. #-o

Considering your backwards reasoning skills I take that as giving me a B on reasoning and an A on class.

[stillman]

Is this: an insult?

Not anymore than this :roll: again it was you that got offended by my using this :roll: causing you to lose your temper and start calling me names like a little kid [-X :oops:

Yes, I PURPOSEFULLY chose a list of fighters that included underdogs winning AND losing. The example was to show that just because someone is an underdog doesn't mean he can't win. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. It's very obvious that in MMA it is DIFFICULT to know who is going to win a particular match. Sometimes Joe Lauzon KO's Jens Pulver. Sometimes Hamill KO's Munoz. That UNPREDICTABILITY makes it difficult to create "gimme fights", and ]that is why particular fights like Leben and Rosholt have a lot of thought behind them. You can't ASSUME Leben wins, so the opponant he is given is going to be someone good with potential who could use a big boost such as a win of Chris would give him.

Again, all you did was show that it happens, you didn't PURPOSEFULLY choose anything (to be accurate, you didn't post the fighters that won until I pointed out that you posting the fighters that lost kind of proved my point) and when you make statements like "fights like Leben and Rosholt have a lot of thought behind them" you imply that you know something about the match making process. Which you have already admitted that you don't. You have no idea if "any" thought went into this particular match or not. It could have been completely political, which was my original point.
If he dominates Chris, wins or loses a close fight... it's going to make all of your fussing look stupid.


Man you are thick, I never said he shouldn't take the fight or couldn't win it :roll: I said I didn't think he earned the fight and that I thought Leben would win.

You thinking you get an A on class just shows how messed up your reasoning really is. :roll: You still "earned" an "F" :lol:

Now go back over to the other forum and let MITman, leader1, and mconn beat up on you some more :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Louden]

Is this: an insult?

Not anymore than this :roll:

Excellent! Thanks for acknowledging that you are a hypocrite! :lol:

I now have you quoted. You just said that this: :roll: is no more an insult than this: :smt022

So what you just admitted was that you were insulting me throughout this thread LONG before I posted anything of the sort, since you think that a picture of crying is an insult. From the very beginning of the thread on the first page you were posting the rolling eyes emoticon in response to my posts. It wasn't until the third page that I posted a picture of a guy crying in response to you. So according to you, a crying emoticon is no more an insult that your rolling eyes emoticon. In place of a crying emoticon I used a picture, but they say the exact same thing. See below:

Hmmm...

Stillman=
http://www.openbooktoronto.com/files/images/dawson-crying.jpg

Can't hold up your side of the discussion intelligently so you resort to posting a picture that is somehow supposed to insult me.... :roll: [-X Couldn't even get that right the first time. :roll:

Typical Louden debate. #-o :lol: :lol: :lol:

All I can figure is you must have either been an only child or had a ton of sisters :lol: when you don't get your way you start calling names :oops: :lol: :lol:

So as we can see, in Stillman's simple minded world, it is perfectly okay for him to roll his eyes at my posts, to use the head slap "d'oh!" emoticon, etc on pages 1 and 2, but when I do the same back at him on page 3... suddenly I am being childish and resorting to insults. Can we say hypocrite?

Personally, you can insult me all you want. I am just pointing out how you can dish it out but you can't take it. This is a sign of your ego issues.

"fights like Leben and Rosholt have a lot of thought behind them" you imply that you know something about the match making process.

The only thing I am admitting to assuming about the match making process is that thought goes behind them. I think that is a fair assumption, one yourself is making too except you assume conspiracy and I assume opportunity. What that means is you see Rosholt being handed to Leben and I see Rosholt being handed an opportunity to shoot into the spotlight. I think it is safe to assume that Jake would agree with me, otherwise why take the fight?

[stillman]

stillman wrote:
Louden wrote:
Is this: an insult?

Not anymore than this

Once again you are trying to make my comment fit into your argument. I didn't say either one was an insult (you did) I just said that I didn't think either one was worse than the other.

Your responses to my :roll: and #-o emoticons prove that you are overly sensitive, a hypocrite, just a low class jerk, or have the biggest ego on this forum. Personally I think all of the above fits you to a tee. I don't have a problem with being insulted, there are just some lines that I won't cross even if you do.

Let's review your responses to my :roll: and #-o

I was crying.
I am simple.
You tried to project your facination with the gay lifestyle onto me.
When I told you to "Take your ball and go home" you original response was to post a picture that someone took of you trying to play soccer coupled with "No, you take your ball and go home"
You posted a picture of your magnifying glass and explained that you use it to try and find your wee wee and offered to loan it to me as if anyone but you would need it.
You said that because of his athletic abilities somehow Casey couldn't be my son. [-X
You said that you could be his father [-X

I'm sure I missed some because I didn't go back and comb through the post page by page :oops:

All of that over a :roll: and a #-o

The bottom line is we agree that Leben will most likely win. I believe your exact quote was "Do I think Leben will win? Yes."

As far as the match making process you can believe what ever you want but for a match maker to put an 0-1 fighter who got choked out in :63 seconds in his first fight into the ring with an 8-4 fighter is at least suspect.

I never said Rosholt couldn't win just that I didn't think he would and that I thought he should fight some lower ranked fighters first.

I predict that you will continue to respond to try and justify your supposed MMA expertise and your rude comments. Your ego will force you to respond because you can not go without having the last word and trying to prove your point (even though there is no point left to prove) you will not stop, you can't stop, have to......respond :lol:

[Louden]

Once again you are trying to make my comment fit into your argument. I didn't say either one was an insult (you did) I just said that I didn't think either one was worse than the other.

You are grasping at straws. As usual.

Your responses to my :roll: and #-o emoticons prove that you are overly sensitive, a hypocrite, just a low class jerk, or have the biggest ego on this forum.

This is Projection again. Just because this is how you work doesn't mean it is how I work. Go back from the very beginning of this thread. You consistantly were rolling your eyes :roll: and using the #-o emotions at me, and how many responses did I give you where I reacted sensitively? I ignored MANY of them and kept continuing the conversation as normal. It wasn't until I offered you a SINGLE cry picture that you got bent out of shape. So again, you are PROJECTING.

Personally I think all of the above fits you to a tee. I don't have a problem with being insulted, there are just some lines that I won't cross even if you do.

That's odd... I ignored multiple accounts of rudeness on your part, and when I posted a single cry pic you lost it.

Let's go take a look, shall we?

Your very first response to me included one :roll:
My reply to you included nothing but on topic comments.
Rudeness I ignored: 1

Your second response to me also included one :roll:
My response to you included nothing but on topic comments.
Rudeness I ignored: 2

Your third response to me included one #-o
My reply included one :roll:

Your 4th reply to me included one :roll: and 3 :lol:
My Rudeness YOU ignored: 0
I respond to your latest comment with zero insults and on topic.
Rudeness I ignored: 3

Your 5th reply to me included one :roll: and one #-o
My next reply to the conversation included zeero insults and was on topic.
Rudeness I ignored: 4.

Your 6th reply to me included one :roll: , one #-o , one [-X and 3 :lol:
My reply to you was the cry picture.
Rudeness YOU ignored: Still 0.

Your reply was to then accuse me of an only child among other things. That's when it became a flamewar... which you are badly losing BTW. 8)

So in conclusion, I ignored FOUR instances of you being rude and you ignored NONE. So again, WHO has a problem with being insulted? LOL!

All of that over a :roll: and a #-o

No, actually it was:
5 :roll:
3 #-o
6 :lol:
1 [-X

until I posted a single cry picture which riled you up.


The bottom line is we agree that Leben will most likely win. I believe your exact quote was "Do I think Leben will win? Yes."

I think Leben is more likely to win. If the odds REALLY favor Chris then I might bet money on Rosholt because I think he can win this.

As far as the match making process you can believe what ever you want but for a match maker to put an 0-1 fighter who got choked out in :63 seconds in his first fight into the ring with an 8-4 fighter is at least suspect.

I suppose that the UFC would want Chris to win his next match, but if that is what they want I think they may have chosen badly to ensure it happens. Chris was taken down by Terry Martin. Against Rosholt he could spend the entire fight on his back.

I never said Rosholt couldn't win just that I didn't think he would and that I thought he should fight some lower ranked fighters first.

Maybe. Maybe he didn't want any lower ranked guys. Maybe he ASKED for a better fight. Who knows? I'm not about to cry foul over it. Not sure why you are.

I predict that you will continue to respond to try and justify your supposed MMA expertise and your rude comments. Your ego will force you to respond because you can not go without having the last word and trying to prove your point (even though there is no point left to prove) you will not stop, you can't stop, have to......respond :lol:

Projection again.

[stillman]

I didn't even bother to read any of your response but if nothing else you are extremely predictable. :lol:

You have this irresistable need to try and prove that you are somehow more intelligent or superior to anyone else on here that doesn't agree with your views. :roll: This pattern is repeated on here, over and over and over, no matter what the subject.

There wasn't anything left to prove Louden. Your rude comments about Casey and my wife were way out of bounds and there is no justifying them. [-X

I chose NOT to make any comments about your family, even though you did about mine.

If you want to do anything you should just apologize for crossing the line.

I just don't see your ego letting you do that, somehow in your mind you think those comments are somehow deserved by me for posting a few emoticons. :roll:

Go ahead and get the last word, I'm done. 8)

[Louden]

I didn't even bother to read any of your response but if nothing else you are extremely predictable. :lol:

You have this irresistable need to try and prove that you are somehow more intelligent or superior to anyone else on here that doesn't agree with your views. :roll: This pattern is repeated on here, over and over and over, no matter what the subject.

Sure you read it, but once again you have no logical response and thus resort to ad hominems to attack me.

There wasn't anything left to prove Louden. Your rude comments about Casey and my wife were way out of bounds and there is no justifying them. [-X

Now who is sensitive? I was obviously kidding... unless you really think there might be some truth to me being Casey's dad... I'd have been about what, a 7 year old father? So clearly I was teasing you silly boy.

I chose NOT to make any comments about your family, even though you did about mine.

I thought you suggested you weren't sensitive?

If you want to do anything you should just apologize for crossing the line.

If I really hurt your feelings then I am sorry.

I just don't see your ego letting you do that, somehow in your mind you think those comments are somehow deserved by me for posting a few emoticons. :roll:

No, I think the cry picture was deserved.

Go ahead and get the last word, I'm done.

How about this... a compromise. I will post your words as the last word, so in a way your word was last, but I posted it. 8)


I'm done.

[stillman]

stillman wrote:
I just don't see your ego letting you do that, somehow in your mind you think those comments are somehow deserved by me for posting a few emoticons.

No, I think the cry picture was deserved.

Since you went back over every post I am sure that you saw where I said that I thought the cry picture was pretty funny #-o but I am sure that you also know that the other comments are not the ones I was talking about :roll: I wouldn't consider ANY of the other comments out of bounds, only the ones about my family.

Incredible, all you had to do was admit that posting the crap about Casey and my wife was out of bounds, (since I purposely avoided doing the same thing to you) and that you were sorry you posted it.

You couldn't even do that without first trying to justify the comments as being somehow insignificant before offering a hollow, insincere apology. Your ego and arrogance wins out yet again. [-X :oops:

When you can admit that what you said about Casey and my wife crossed the line without trying to justify it first, I will accept your apology.

[Louden]

I said I was sorry I offended you. :?

[stillman]

I said I was sorry I offended you. :?

And I said I would accept your apology when you admit that your comments crossed the line without trying to justify them first. :?

[Louden]

I said I was sorry I offended you. :?

And I said I would accept your apology when you admit that your comments crossed the line without trying to justify them first. :?

Considering who I was speaking to (as "boundaries" vary from person to person), yes apparantly I inadvertantly crossed a line.

If I had busted on a friends balls like that, we would laugh it off and/or he'd make a comeback to burn me worse, and in turn I'd laugh it off and come back at him. I didn't know your boundaries, so apparantly I did step over a line with you. And for that I am sorry. If you still call that a justification then that's fine, it's the best you will get from me because I am saying sorry I hurt your feelings, as I didn't know where your boundaries were and didn't know I was about to cross it.

I could ask you to apologize for being arrogant and condescending throughout this thread but I could care less. It doesn't bother me enough to demand an apology.

[stillman]

Louden,
Let me explain something to you. Your comments about Casey and my wife were WAY out of bounds compared to the "normal" personal insults on here, such as, stupid, crying, gay, incompetent, arrogant, etc. which don't bother me at all. In fact most of them are funny and easily reciprocated without feeling the least bit guilty of offending the other person. I don't see any emoticons (which seems to be the most common way people on this board communicate the above insults) that portray anything close to what you printed.

I can't recall any other thread on ANY of the forums of Missouirwrestling.com where anything like your comments were said.

As far as how you interact with your "friends" busting balls, what would that have to do with me?

Apparently, you are incapable of apologizing without some sort of justifcation that try to minimalize the significance of your comments. How hard would it have been just to type: "Stillman, the comments I made concerning your family crossed the line and for that I sincerely apologize" without the other justifying verbage.

Humility is a good trait to have....just saying.

[Louden]

Because Stillman, I cannot grasp your position. If you had said that you fathered my daughter, I would get a chuckle out of it. Clearly you would be joking and just busting my balls, so why the heck would I be offended had you made that statement? I cannot fathom why you are offended by that because I would never be.

However, I do apologize that I offended you. I don't understand it, but I do apologize for offending you. If you want me to feel sorry that I offended you, then you've got it, I do because I didn't mean to hurt your feelings.
If you want me to say that I UNDERSTAND it, I'm sorry because I don't understand how you took offense... I'm just sorry that you did. Whether or not that is good enough for you is up to you.

[stillman]

Louden,
To try and help you to understand, my position is that there is NO reason to go where you went in terms of either morals or class. There are certain lines that I just won't cross. Your family didn't post anything on here and had absolutely nothing to do with the discussion that was taking place. I don't understand why you felt it was necessary to try and insult mine unless you felt you had no where left to go to insult me personally. A reciprocal repsponse from me could have escalated the discussion into something that I don't believe anyone would want to see.

There is also a difference between dicussions on this board and "busting balls" with your friends in a social setting.

All that being said your apology seems to be sincere and I accept it.

Have a nice day. 8)

[Louden]

I don't understand why you felt it was necessary to try and insult mine unless you felt you had no where left to go to insult me personally. A reciprocal repsponse from me could have escalated the discussion into something that I don't believe anyone would want to see.

I didn't feel it was "necessary", I just thought that's what was going on between us. I thought we were busting on each other in humor. I didn't realize that we were viewing what was going on in two different point of views.

[cardsfsc]

Ok, so did Hendricks win or what?

[bleachercoach1]

Ok, so did Hendricks win or what?

Awesome fight

Glad I have it on tape!!!

[cardsfsc]

You do not queer!

[Krondar]

UFC 101: Declaration
Date: Aug 08, 2009
Location: Philadelphia
Venue: Wachovia Center
Broadcast: Pay per view

MAIN CARD

* Champ B.J. Penn vs. Kenny Florian (for UFC lightweight title)
* Champ Anderson Silva vs. Forrest Griffin (non-title fight)
* Johny Hendricks vs. Amir Sadollah
* Ricardo Almeida vs. Kendall Grove
* Josh Neer vs. Kurt Pellgrino

PRELIMINARY CARD

* Shane Nelson vs. Aaron Riley
* John Howard vs. Tamdan McCrory
* Thales Leites vs. Alessio Sakara
* Dan Cramer vs. Matthew Riddle
* Rob Emerson vs. George Sotiropoulos
* Jesse Lennox vs. Danillo Villefort

[Louden]

If Rosholt was a monster who had destroyed everyone he faced before coming to the ufc and then destroyed Miller in 63 seconds, I could see him getting this bout. BUT that hasn't happened and I think someone owed someone a favor or something for him to get the match. (What gym does he fight out of again?)

Leben is ranked 22

Rosholt is ranked 34 ??? with an 5-1 overall record and 0-1 ufc. He has wins over well known fighters (sarcasm) Dusty Miller, Chris Clark, Jeremiah Caves, Chad Jay, Osterneck?? :roll: :roll: I don't believe any of these guys are ranked.

Rosholt is ranked over fighters such as:
Sakara #40
Lister #44
Terry Martin #51
Nate Quarry #52
Travis Lutter #53
Frank Shamrock #56

#-o I would prefer to see him fight (and beat) some of the lower ranked guys before getting a shot at a higher profile guy like Leben. The system (if there is one) would seem to make sense then.

I hope he does well but I don't think he will be able to handle the power or the BJJ of Leben and I think Leben will have worked on his takedown defense considering he is fighting a 3 time D1 wrestling champ [-X

I think Leben wins.

I know that after this weekend you've known that I would rehash this thread. My original point was that Jake was not being thrown in over his head. Looks like that turned out to be true. I thought Leben was favored but that was never my argument on this thread.

[Krondar]

do we have a link to the Hendricks/Amir fight ?

[Krondar]

nevermind, here it is:

http://www.mmaroot.com/johny-hendricks-vs-amir-sadollah-fight-ufc-101-video/

[Ol' Indian]

I know that after this weekend you've known that I would rehash this thread. My original point was that Jake was not being thrown in over his head. Looks like that turned out to be true. I thought Leben was favored but that was never my argument on this thread.


I think maybe Mr. Stillman was right and Jake did get thrown in over his head.

Beating an untrained, fell off the wagon Leben was not a feat of excellence on Jake's part and it took 3 rounds to do it.

All it earned him was another loss vs Grove and being cut by the UFC.

[Louden]

The debate wasn't about Grove (who I expected to beat Rosholt-although admittedly Jake did far better than I thought against Grove). The debate was about getting thrown in over his head against Leben. He beat Leben, no matter how you try to belittle that win.