Lindenwood vs Missouri

[greglanejr]

Lindenwood vs Missouri in a dual meet

What does everyone think?

I think Lindenwood can pull it out

Parisi is one hell of a coach

2 National Titles
2 National Coach of the Year Awards

I think Missouri needs to bring in Parisi to replace Smith if they ever want to win a national title

[jonathan]

I think they wrestled year before last year.

[yoyowrestling]

I think MU will win because they are Divison One and im sure if some of MU's wrestlers competed at a smaller level like Lindenwood they would achieve even more success then the Linenwood squad as had. This isn't a bash against Lindenwood by any means but they just aren't at the same level as Mizzou.

[Conquistadors]

Lindenwood vs Missouri in a dual meet

What does everyone think?

I think Lindenwood can pull it out

Parisi is one hell of a coach

2 National Titles
2 National Coach of the Year Awards

I think Missouri needs to bring in Parisi to replace Smith if they ever want to win a national title

You think Lindenwood would beat Mizzou in a dual? I think you are delusional.

At their best, Smith's Mizzou team beat National Champ Oklahoma State two years ago (and has beaten every Big XII team in a dual in the last few years). On a bad day, UM is a top 25 team in DIV I. When everything shakes out, Smith has done a great job keeping Missouri in the top dozen or so programs. And that isn't an easy chore.

Coach Parisi has done a wonderful job at Lindenwood, which last time I checked, is not a DIV I program.

[jonathan]

1/10/03

125 Bader, Mark Missouri Tech. Fall Guzman, Rick Lindenwood 15-0
133 McCormick, Chris Missouri Pinned Middleton, Tamir Lindenwood 1:43
141 Reese, J.P. Missouri Pinned Smith, Lucas Lindenwood 1:14
149 Spates, Jeremy Missouri Pinned Tedesco, Tommy Lindenwood 2:58
157 Burleson, Kenny Missouri Tech. Fall Treakle, Jimmy Lindenwood 18-2
165 Woodley, Tyron Missouri Forfeit n/a n/a 0-0
174 Russell, J.C. Missouri Tech. Fall Johnson, Corey Lindenwood 20-5
184 Foust, Jeff Missouri Decision Bunch, James Lindenwood 7-3
197 Stone, Dante Missouri Tech. Fall James, Wayne Lindenwood 22-7
HWT Herron, Kevin Missouri Pinned Langston, Art Lindenwood 1:30

[fudge tunnel]

125 - Sampo v. Kephart.............Kephart by decision 3-0
133 - Moyer v. T Mac.................T Mac by major dec. 7-0
141 - Dominguez v. C Mac.........C Mac by fall 13-0
149 - Dickman v. Lewis..............Dickman by decision 13-3
157 - Chandler v. Rio.................Chandler by decision 16-3
165 - Dieffenbach v. Pell.............Pell by major dec. 20-3
174 - Salter/Luna v. Askren........Askren by fall 26-3
184 - Edwards v. Jordan.............Jordan by fall 32-3
197 - Beccera v. Foust................Foust by decision 35-3
HWT - Gormley v. Connole/Ellis...Gormley by dec 35-6

I'd like a little of what Greg Lane, Jr. is smoking.

[Class_3_Fan]

Fudge -

I agree with your picks for the most part.

However, IMHO.............

133: TMac by only a Dec. Moyer is damn tough.

157: I would pick Rio over Chandler by a Dec.

184: I'm sure Lindenwood would wrestle their returning AA, Corey Johnson here. In this matchup, Jordan by a Dec.

Mizzou wins the dual 28-9

[Super Gay AL]

Rio lost to Marable 3-2 last weekend, and was pinned by DeVilbiss (2:26). Chandler lost to DeVilbiss 3-1.

I would even go out on a limb in saying Tmac would TF or pin Moyer. Tmac would of been a qualifier last season if not for his injury. He didnt wrestle at CMSU but watch him at MU Open, his motor never stops.

[RP-in-Nebraska]

SGA, I'm disappointed. That last post was not very gay.

[fudge tunnel]

I stand by my T Mac & Chandler picks.

Regarding Corey Johnson.... 174 Russell, J.C. Missouri Tech. Fall Johnson, Corey Lindenwood 20-5

I'm sorry, if JC Russell techs you.......well......you're not that great. Jordan would tear him a new one.

[wrestler1111265]

125 - Sampo v. Kephart.............Kephart by decision
133 - Moyer v. T Mac.................a toss up, i think moyer is the real deal
141 - Dominguez v. C Mac.........C Mac by fall
149 - Dickman v. Lewis..............Dickman by decision
157 - Chandler v. Rio.................Rio by decision
165 - Dieffenbach v. Pell.............Pell
174 - Salter/Luna v. Askren........Askren easy one to pick
184 - Corey johnston v. Jordan.............i think corey could pull this one off
197 - Beccera v. Foust................Foust by decision
HWT - Gormley v. Connole/Ellis...Gormley

It would be a good match but i think that mizzou would win the dual no questions asked

[fudge tunnel]

133 - Moyer v. T Mac.................a toss up, i think moyer is the real deal

157 - Chandler v. Rio.................Rio by decision

184 - Corey johnston v. Jordan.............i think corey could pull this one off


T Mac would introduce Moyer to the concept of "riding time"

Rio/Chandler - could go either way. I took Chandler b/c Rio lost to true frosh Marable.

Corey Johnson - read 2 posts up.

[greglanejr]

just the fact that we are discussing that an NAIA team can hang with a top 25 ncaa div 1 team is a credit to what a great coach Parisi is

I said it before, and Ill say it again, Parisi is a much better coach then Smith

Parisi takes over Missouri and he would take them to another level

[greglanejr]

just want to add that i dont want to come off as bashing smith

he has done a good job and I am sure he will continue to do a good job

IMHO Parisi is the better coach of the two

[Conquistadors]

just the fact that we are discussing that an NAIA team can hang with a top 25 ncaa div 1 team is a credit to what a great coach Parisi is

I said it before, and Ill say it again, Parisi is a much better coach then Smith

Parisi takes over Missouri and he would take them to another level

First of all, you meant to say "than Smith."

I for one am NOT discussing Lindenwood hanging with with Mizzou, which is a top 15 team. So there is no "fact" here. Lindenwood would not "hang" with Mizzou.

Taking ANY team from a perennial top 15 to the next level (perennial top 5?) is very, very difficult. How many teams have been top 5 more than half the time over the last, say, six years? I'm guessing OkState, Minnesota, Iowa, and probably Oklahoma & Iowa State. Lehigh maybe? Illinois, which is top notch and superbly coached, has finished between 10th and 5th consistently, but hasn't yet finished higher.

You are basically saying the Coach Parisi would do better than 90% of the current Div I coaches. Just seems like a silly argument.

With that said, Coach Parisi is doing a fine job.

[BigBoss]

First of all It don't matter what div U are...There are some non div 1 guy just as good or even better then the top D1 guys. For esample, Emmett Willson who was rank number one wrestling at 197 in all div in 2003 and Stryder Davis who got second in Vegas last year who Mike Rio beat before. As far as MU and LU go it will be a good dule. Mike Rio had a bad tournment at cmsu. This guy is so damm good. He is rank number 17 in USA Wrestling magazines Top 200 College wrestlers including D1. Rio took 1&2 in Jr. College and 1 in NAIA. HE also so beat a bunch of good D1 guys. .

125 - Sampo v. Kephart.............Kephart by decision
133 - Moyer v. T Mac.................Moyer by decision. He beat 1 rank D2 guy
141 - Dominguez v. C Mac.........C Mac by decision
149 - Dickman v. Lewis..............Dickman by decision
157 - Chandler v. Rio.................Rio by pin. Beat 13.rank guy Matt Hill, Edinboro13-6
165 - Dieffenbach v. Pell.............Pell by dec
174 - Salter/Luna v. Askren........Askren by fall
184 - Cory Johonson v. Jordan.............Cory by dec beat 11 rank Alex Clemsen, Edinboro 7-0
197 - Beccera v. Foust................Foust by decision
HWT - Gormley v. Connole/Ellis...Gormley by dec.

Lindenwood would have beat MU last year at 125, 133,141,149,157,197and HWT

[northco]

You know what we will see this weekend because LU will be at the MU open

[Thfzn]

LU could never "hang" with MU, this is not to say that LU does not have some fine wrestlers they do, but D1 and NAIA are totally different.

Saying that, there was a time, Smith's first few years, when MU was really not a good program and I do remember that MU lost to CMSU and tied MO Valley during that time period.

When the national duals first started they used to allow the NAIA, D3, and D2 national championship teams to attend, I know that MO Valley wrestled in a few of the national dual tournaments, too bad they don't do that anymore I liked seeing the lower level programs get a chance.

I proposed this once on the forum, but I would like to see the Missouri schools open the season with the Missouri duals. For a few years when I was at Missouri State (SMSU) MU hosted the Missouri duals with MU, SMSU, CMSU, and Truman (NEMO at that time).

Today you would have MU, LU, MO Valley, CMSU, Truman, and MO BAP I think this would be great for the wrestling community.

[Class_3_Fan]

Regarding Corey Johnson.... 174 Russell, J.C. Missouri Tech. Fall Johnson, Corey Lindenwood 20-5. I'm sorry, if JC Russell techs you.......well......you're not that great. Jordan would tear him a new one.

Wasn't this match at the BEGINNING of last season ? Not a meaningful basis to discredit Johnson. Look at what Johnson did at THIS seasons LU Open and EMU Open. A much better "measuring stick" IMHO. Thus my basis for saying that he is much improved (from the beginning of last season) and for stating that he would possibly only lose a DEC to Jordan. We will have to agree to disagree on this one.


Rio/Chandler - could go either way. I took Chandler b/c Rio lost to true frosh Marable.

Yes, he did lose to Marable at CMSU Open. Marable is a tough Frosh and honestly Rio didn't look very good last weekend. However, are you going to solely judge Rio based ONLY on his performance last weekend ? Were you at CMSU last season when heat beat NCAA D1 qualifier Cody Greene ? Yes, that was at 149# but I'm not convinced that Chandler is quite at the level yet that Greene was last season and believe that Rio wins this match against Chandler 8 of 10 times. I could be wrong.


Anyway, I think we all agree that Mizzou would handle LU in a dual. I also think we agree that Parisi is doing one find job at LU.

Rio lost to Marable 3-2 last weekend, and was pinned by DeVilbiss (2:26). Chandler lost to DeVilbiss 3-1.


and comm'on.... losing to Russell... :roll:

Angel Escobedo, Indiana University Dec Ryan Moyer, Lindenwood University, 6-1

I am fairly confident TMac would beat Escobedo.....

[Conquistadors]

Big Boss,

I never make fun of people for whom English is a second language, so I'll simply ask you what is a "dule"? Does this refer to a pair of logs that you put on the fire at Christmas?

[greglanejr]

wish I knew how to post a poll on this

Who is the better coach, Parisi or Smith?

Who is the better coach, Parisi or Smith?

Smith


Get off Parisi's jock strap :?

[Louden]

Not that it has much bearing but don't forget that Chandler beat Marable in High School. Chandler also has a years worth of D1 training over Marable.

[hank]

Conquistadors you are delusional if you think Parisis is a great coach. You must smoke the good stuff. Parisi couldn't coach his way out of a brown paper bag. If Lindenwood had a great coach they would be dangerous. All Lindenwood is, is a big recruiting scam. They are able to promise kids the world, not deliver and get away with it. You are on crack. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

[hank]

Sorry I guess that should have been directed to greglane

[robo]

How many time-outs would Moyer get in this "victory" over TMac? TMac by AT LEAST a major.

You guys are definitely showing your lack of knowledge when saying Lindenwood (NAIA) would “hang” with MU (D-1 Top 10-15). You can see what the results were 2 years ago.

T.J. at NAIA MoBap beat D-1 Oklahoma State wrester Kyle. Is it the coaching that makes NAIA so strong or is it the level of wrestlers they recruit?
:toimonster:

[fudge tunnel]

If Lindenwood had a great coach they would be dangerous.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Lindenhood win the NAIA national championship last year?

.....to Parisi's credit.

[STLwrestling]

T.J. at NAIA MoBap beat D-1 Oklahoma State wrester Kyle. Is it the coaching that makes NAIA so strong or is it the level of wrestlers they recruit?
:toimonster:

Wow congrats on beating someone's workout partner. NEWSFLASH, NAIA guys beat D-1 backups all the time.

[robo]

T.J. at NAIA MoBap beat D-1 Oklahoma State wrester Kyle. Is it the coaching that makes NAIA so strong or is it the level of wrestlers they recruit?
:toimonster:

Wow congrats on beating someone's workout partner. NEWSFLASH, NAIA guys beat D-1 backups all the time.

No Way!

Kyle went to OSU on a full Ride just a few years back!

:axe: :axe:

Didnt Josh Budke too?

[fudge tunnel]

Didnt Josh Budke too?

No, he went to Iowa.....not OSU. :P

[Beowulf]

Did somebody say bukkake? :razz:

[Louden]

Ahhh.... now this is the Missouriwrestling dot com that I remember...

[robo]

Ahhh.... now this is the Missouriwrestling dot com that I remember...

:smt064 :smt065 :smt075 :supz:

Have the tournaments been ranked yet?

How about the teams?

Looks like new ownership to me!

:drinkers: :smt022

[Louden]

No they haven't been but I never looked too hard at those anyway. Well, teams I did but not the tourney, and I htink the teams have been ranked, just not officially.

[greglanejr]

Conquistadors you are delusional if you think Parisis is a great coach. You must smoke the good stuff. Parisi couldn't coach his way out of a brown paper bag.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but hasn't Parisi won TWO NATIONAL TITLES and been named NATIONAL COACH OF THE YEAR TWO TIMES?

[fudge tunnel]

:roll:

[Louden]

I knew a lot of Lindenwood wrestlers, and most of them told me that he was a better recruiter than a coach. Who knows what the truth is, but I would imagine that it would depend on who the wrestler was. For some he might be great, for others he might not be. As long as they are winning then I guess it's a moot point.

[imjustdatguy]

Everyone is always talking about Parisi this and Parisi that...Me personally i think the haters are the people who have not accomplish what he has accomplished yet. Why cant anyone give him his credit. If he is not the great coach that everyone says he is, why is he winning National Titles? Do not give me; he is just a good recruiter. If that is the case, I think Mizzou should hire him....I think a good recruiter is also part of being a good collegiate coach. I hope you dont think OSU is winning national titles with just average wrestlers....If you think that, do not write on this Forum again......

[wrestlefan19]

i think the haters are the people who have not accomplish what he has accomplished yet.

your right they should coach lindenwood to an NAIA title before they question his coaching ability!!!

[Ella_Guru]

Mizzou couldn't afford Parisi...He has got a great Deal. The Key with Parisi is he knows his limits and hires people as assistants that are stronger thatn him in soem areas...That is a sign of a good adminstrator.He has the right people in the right places. nuff said.....Plsu it helps to have a VERY LARGE budget.

[robo]

Lindenwood is a sports machine. They also have some of the best male and female hockey, ice and street, teams in the country, regardless of class or sports affiliation. They have the budget to recruit.

Parisi to his credit is at more local sports events than say coach Smith at MU. Yet, Parisi does not just recruit local kids obviously. He has top talent from all over the country and seems to hit Oklahoma harder than anyone else in the state of Missouri. That is just my limited exposure observation, but what do I know? For a NAIA team to even be considered competitive with a NCAA Div. 1, Big Five program, says it all. Sure the top talent will go to the Div. 1 program first, if given the opportunity, but to be able to attract enough second tier guys to compete with a Div.1, big five, team like MU is remarkable.

[rooster]

Comparing NAIA to NCAA D 1?? Being competitive? Have not looked real close but..... how did the NAIA schools fair at Las Vegas?

[rooster]

Just looked close. Dana #2 NAIA,42 out of 52 Las Vegas. Missouri Valley # 6 NAIA, 47 out of 52. Dickinson State #4 33 out of 52. Embry Riddle #5 NAIA 44 out of 52. Montana St. 17 NAIA, 49 out of 52.

[robo]

How many NAIA teams were in Vegas?

The Div. One teams should be able to pull in the very best talent and at the larger tournaments they should do much better. I don't think anyone questions that. Still we have guys like Wolk I believe it was from that start up NAIA program at McKendry beating highly recruited Div. One wrestler Kephart from MU at the Lindenwood open and NAIA red shirt freshman T.J. Taylor from MoBap beating highly recruited Div. One wrestler Ethan Kyle from OSU. These Div One kids were supposedly the cream of the crop in the whole country and yet after training in a Div. One training room they get beat by barely existing NAIA training room wrestlers. I don't know what it says for sure, but at least it says NAIA can be competitive with Div.One at some points.

How did these Div. One programs turn top recruits into fodder for these NAIA wrestlers? Maybe it was all hype about how good those Div. One guys were to begin with or it could be that the Coaches Smith at OSU and MU are not all they are said to be. Which is it? Maybe Coaches Parisi and Jackson should be the Div. One coaches?

[robo]

Thanks, you answered the first question before it was posted.

[greglanejr]

http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/Search.asp

Lindenwood Wrestling
Operating Budget
$65,803

Missouri Wrestling
Operating Budget
$116,273

[kevin]

very interesting site...

[northco]

Robo-Both yiour instances don't really count Vogt was a 3rd yewar CVollege wrestler that was a 2x JUCO Finalist Vs. A Very highly ranked high school kid that was wrestling in his 1st College tournament..BTW Kephart beat him later that year. JT Taylor was also a very highly ranked kid otu of HigH School that went to Edinboro for 2 years and now has transfered to Mo Bap. A good comparision is Corey johnson beating Alex Clemson at the Eastern Michigan open. Corey Has been NAIA all along and Alex has been a ranked D-I wrestler.

I don't think In the previous post that he was talking about Wrestling operations Budgets. I think he was speaking about the amount of wrestlers he can bring in on scholarship. operating budgets means trravel expenses and other stuff. In NAIA there are no "offical" sports scholarships.

[greglanejr]

http://www.cpoacleveland.net/ncaanaiascholarship.htm

So if Lindendwood is fully funded on scholarships that would give them 8

and if Missouri is fully funded on scholarships that would give them 9.9

The bottom line is Parisi has done more with less at Lindenwood then Smith has at Missouri

[rooster]

It is laughable to compare d 1 athletics to NAIA. The cream of the crop you speak of are not starting for the programs you speak of. The kids you are talking about are good tough kids. There is just a DIFFERENCE. 8)

[rooster]

Johnson beating Clemson is impressive.

[klhill]

Northco,
What do you mean there are no "official" NAIA sports scholarships. Of course there are.

125 - Sampo v. Kephart.............Kephart by decision
133 - Moyer v. T Mac.................Moyer by decision. He beat 1 rank D2 guy
141 - Dominguez v. C Mac.........C Mac by decision
149 - Dickman v. Lewis..............Dickman by decision
157 - Chandler v. Rio.................Rio by pin. Beat 13.rank guy Matt Hill, Edinboro13-6
165 - Dieffenbach v. Pell.............Pell by dec
174 - Salter/Luna v. Askren........Askren by fall
184 - Cory Johonson v. Jordan.............Cory by dec beat 11 rank Alex Clemsen, Edinboro 7-0
197 - Beccera v. Foust................Foust by decision
HWT - Gormley v. Connole/Ellis...Gormley by dec.

Lindenwood would have beat MU last year at 125, 133,141,149,157,197and HWT

BigBoss, are you still confident about your predictions?

[mconn]

I say MU 50 - LU 3. Maybe 3.

[Louden]

he had LU splitting the 10 matches with MU? :lol:

[obiefan]

after opens last season. i think LU held their own very well against mizzou wrestlers......
just my humble opinion, dont take it the wrong way :)

LU really took it to JC Russell :D

[Louden]

Their starting line-up?

[mconn]

Didn't meant to cast any stones OBF just my humble opnion. LU has a great team.

[greglanejr]

PARISI TRAINED!

[Old Panther]

Perhaps there is another part to this that is being overlooked.

With there being fewer and fewer college wrestling programs there are more quality coaches taking positions at smaller schools and more potentially good wrestlers going to those schools. If this were another time and more large schools had wrestling programs, these wrestlers and coaches could very well be at D-1 schools that no longer have wrestling.

By virtue of the limited opportunity for both coaches and wrestlers, the quality of the smaller school teams has improved dramitically. In past years, many of the athletes would have gone to bigger schools.

As far as recruiting goes, with less opportunity it is easier to recruit quality coaches and athletes. IMHO.

[fullnelson]

I think it was 4 years/ 3years ago MU did wrestle Lindenwood the score something like 54-3. Maybe Mu could wrestle their 2nd team this year for a competitive dual.

[GAC The Great]

It was three dual meets about 3 years ago, MU wrestled MOBAP, Mo Valley and Lindenwood. MU tore through everybody, shutting out MoBap and Mo Valley. I cant remember if Lindenwood won a match, but they blew everyone out of the water. It was also all in the same night. The NAIA schools didnt wrestle against eachother.

[northco]

I remeber That Dual(s)
Mizzou beat Lindenwood 52-0
then Beat Mo Valley 51-0
then beat Mo Bap 48-0
the averaged a tech per match

[mconn]

8)

[Outlaw]

There is NO comparison between NAIA and D1 wrestling. It is delusional to even make a comparison. Wrestlers transfer out of D1 programs where they are not staters and "magically" become NAIA national champions.

[3xvalleyaa]

I remember those duals....i hate to make excuses but that night MU WAS ON FIRE and the NAIA schools looked worse than usual... and years vary between competetiveness (sp?) among the divisions.... D1 is hands down tougher and deeper than all the other divisions but after that it's a toss up...if MVC, LU, DANA, MSU-NORTHERN were D2 they would challenge for top ten or even top five finishes every year...

[obiefan]

national champion is a national champion

[mconn]

That's a good point Cindy and they deserve respect for it. But it does go to show you that there is a difference when a school like Mizzou who arguably had a better team this year than they did at this dual could only manage 15th at the NCAA's.

[3xvalleyaa]

...in the year of those duals they only had one really solid AA canidate...just remember there are far more teams in D1... one more AA and they are lookin at a top ten finish....four AA's and they are close to top five.... more teams means more upsets and you only need about five solid AA canidates to be a good tourney team, with that said if MU could get over the hump a top five finish is possible next year... (McCormick, chandler, askren, pell,jordan, and askren) 07 is starting to look good!! :D

[Outlaw]

national champion is a national champion

This is only true as a person gets older...much older. D1 national champions vs NAIA national champions would result in a shut out.

[3xvalleyaa]

...except Emmitt Wilson

[obiefan]

as i said before a national champion is a national champion.... down the road you have the ring most people are not going to say.... division 1, 2 or 3 or is it NAIA.......
8)

[The Black Superman]

D-1 is on top. there is no comparsion to any another wrestling level.
(Some d-1 teams do lose to the lower level teams)

D-2 and naia are about the same, but in my opnion NAIA is better. when i see duals taht are d-2 vs naia the winner is mostly the naia teams.

[greglanejr]

Lindenwood has another amazing recruiting class

Seems like Parisi outrecruits Smith year after year

[northco]

Parisi Gets some great recruiting Classes....
But Smith gets some great guys too.
He has made inroads to Ohio and PA and are getting some of their best wrestlers.
In The last 4 years Smith has not had a recruiting class that has been ranked lower than 13th. So I don't Think Parisi is out recruiting him. But Joe is keeping it competitive.

[fudge tunnel]

Seems like Parisi outrecruits Smith year after year


:lol:

[fowler]

:?

[RP-in-Nebraska]

Seems like Parisi outrecruits Smith year after year

Then how in the world is Mizzou ranked 5th in the Nation in D-1?

[DIVOT HEAD]

obiefan or anyone else who says a national championship is a national championship, i hope you are'nt the ones that preach for and say we should only have one class in missouri. also, just compare lindenwood recruits with missouri's recruits and their accomplishments, not just high school, but nationally also.

[wrestlefan19]

Seems like Parisi outrecruits Smith year after year

Then how in the world is Mizzou ranked 5th in the Nation in D-1?

2 words
Roid Rage

[greglanejr]

Missouri

Vince Hannon (Lombard, IL)

125
Missouri

Mitch Barnett (Liberty, MO)

197/285
Missouri

Nick Velliquette (Nixa, MO)

125
Missouri

Aaron Bridgeman (Maysville, MO)

184/197
Missouri

Tony Pescaglia (Hickman, MO)

125
Missouri

Andrew Wood (Hannibal, MO)

165
Missouri

Willie Saxton (Buckeye Local, OH)

133
Missouri

Emmanuel Brooks (Lincoln College)

157
Missouri

Zach Schuller (St. Clairsville, OH)

157
Missouri

Ashtin Primus (Connellsville, PA)

141
Missouri

Tyler Perry (Hannibal, MO)

285

[greglanejr]

Lindenwood

Matt Burns (Triton CC)

174
Lindenwood

Neal Kemp (Triton CC)

184
Lindenwood

Marcus Cobbs (Harper CC)

141
Lindenwood

Kyle Frawley (Dana)

184
Lindenwood

Mike O'Hara (Santa Ana CC)

165
Lindenwood

Brian Judd (Santa Ana CC)

184
Lindenwood

Anthony Leon (Pima CC)

174
Lindenwood

Jacob Wadley (Meremac CC)

141
Lindenwood

Jimmy Stewart (Paola, KS)

184/197
Lindenwood

Josh Hauk (Meremac CC)

157
Lindenwood

Adam Meredith (Jefferson City, MO)

184/197
Lindenwood

Tyler Babcock (Bethalto, IL)

141
Lindenwood

Matt Dunbar (Hannibal, MO)

141
Lindenwood

Josh Dix (James River, VA)

133
Lindenwood

Matt Juncal (U. of the Cumberlands)

184/197
Lindenwood

Andy Hurla (St. Thomas Aquinas, KS)

149/157
Lindenwood

Dennis Kakrah (Wabaunsee CC)

125
Lindenwood

Marino Eatman (Wabaunsee CC)

285
Lindenwood

Nathan Crossett (Francis Howell, MO)

285
Lindenwood

Roland "Jesse" Rogers (Popluar Bluff, MO)

157
Lindenwood

John Sumner (Eureka, MO)

174
Lindenwood

Wes Vilda (CBC, MO)

197
Lindenwood

Erik Wagner (Fort Zumwalt West, MO)

125
Lindenwood

Justin Wolfrom (Fort Zumwalt West, MO)

149/157
Lindenwood

Brandon Locco (Francis Howell, MO)

157/165
Lindenwood

Juan Rodriguez (Santa Ana College)

285

[The Black Superman]

They are getting outrecruited...lindewood has crazy recruit this year. It will be like this for a while. as long as money is flowing the recurits will follow.

[fudge tunnel]

It's not the quantity, it's the quality.

[greglanejr]

Lindenwood really seems to hit the JUCO level hard compared to Missouri

[DIVOT HEAD]

i don't know much about the juco recruits, but i think a allstar team from this years high school class could go with this lindenwood class.

[wrestlefan19]

i don't know much about the juco recruits, but i think a allstar team from this years high school class could go with this lindenwood class.

thank you captain obvious
a high school all star team could beat ANY ONE recruiting class
:roll:

[DIVOT HEAD]

no missouris allstars would not beat iowas recruits, ohio states, iowa state, lehiegh, and probally not missouri's etc. etc.

[The Black Superman]

John Sumner (Eureka, MO)

Wes Vilda (CBC, MO)

Erik Wagner (Fort Zumwalt West, MO)

Justin Wolfrom (Fort Zumwalt West, MO)

Brandon Locco (Francis Howell, MO)


These kids are DI recurits. There is no reason Missouri should have over looked them.

[DIVOT HEAD]

these days blue chip recruits have had some success nationally. naia and div3 recruits are usually there because of academics or in some cases get homesick and stay in thier hometown.

[oldtimer]

these days blue chip recruits have had some success nationally. naia and div3 recruits are usually there because of academics or in some cases get homesick and stay in thier hometown.

I can agree with that statement. However, I would also add they haven't emotionally matured enough for D1.

Question: What is a Div 1 Wrestling Scholarship worth now-a-days?

[fudge tunnel]

John Sumner (Eureka, MO)

Wes Vilda (CBC, MO)

Erik Wagner (Fort Zumwalt West, MO)

Justin Wolfrom (Fort Zumwalt West, MO)

Brandon Locco (Francis Howell, MO)


These kids are DI recurits. There is no reason Missouri should have over looked them.

Actually there a lots of reasons...

The only one on this list who could have fit into the Mizzou system is Lococo. Vilda - would have never seen varsity @ 197 until his senior year (unless Askren got hurt); Wagner......not even close to a D1 prospect; Wolfrum - lots of talent, questionable work ethic.......why again is he at a NAIA school?; Sumner - give me a break.

[wrestlefan19]

[quote="The Black Superman":25112]John Sumner (Eureka, MO)

Wes Vilda (CBC, MO)

Erik Wagner (Fort Zumwalt West, MO)

Justin Wolfrom (Fort Zumwalt West, MO)

Brandon Locco (Francis Howell, MO)


These kids are DI recurits. There is no reason Missouri should have over looked them.

Actually there a lots of reasons...

The only one on this list who could have fit into the Mizzou system is Lococo. Vilda - would have never seen varsity @ 197 until his senior year (unless Askren got hurt); Wagner......not even close to a D1 prospect; Wolfrum - lots of talent, questionable work ethic.......why again is he at a NAIA school?; Sumner - give me a break.[/quote:25112]

I believe Warner was being recruited by Arizona State...They are D1 correct?

I believe Warner was being recruited by Arizona State...They are D1 correct?

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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[wrestlefan19]

Frank I'm sorry but what place did Tony Pascaglia take at districts?
Who beat him?
And Where is Tony wrestling for in college?

[oldtimer]

[quote="The Black Superman":92059]John Sumner (Eureka, MO)

Wes Vilda (CBC, MO)

Erik Wagner (Fort Zumwalt West, MO)

Justin Wolfrom (Fort Zumwalt West, MO)

Brandon Locco (Francis Howell, MO)


These kids are DI recurits. There is no reason Missouri should have over looked them.

Actually there a lots of reasons...

The only one on this list who could have fit into the Mizzou system is Lococo. Vilda - would have never seen varsity @ 197 until his senior year (unless Askren got hurt); Wagner......not even close to a D1 prospect; Wolfrum - lots of talent, questionable work ethic.......why again is he at a NAIA school?; Sumner - give me a break.

I believe Warner was being recruited by Arizona State...They are D1 correct?[/quote:92059]

Arizona State has sports?

I didn't know that.

Frank I'm sorry but what place did Tony Pascaglia take at districts?
Who beat him?
And Where is Tony wrestling for in college?

Hasn't Tony placed in national tournaments? What place did they end up at state? Did you see Erik's semi's match? M-E-L-T-D-O-W-N!!!!!!!!!!

[wrestlefan19]

So you don't think Mizzou should have recruited Warner?
I suppose you would much rather have Nick Velliquette?

So you don't think Mizzou should have recruited Warner?
I suppose you would much rather have Nick Velliquette?

No

[fudge tunnel]

I believe Warner was being recruited by Arizona State...

Comm'on wf19.......don't you remember that thread? Thom Ortiz had about as much interest in Warner wrestling there as he did a dancing monkey.......

[RP-in-Nebraska]

What kind of monkey?

[oldtimer]

What kind of monkey?

Trunk Monkey

[fudge tunnel]

So you don't think Mizzou should have recruited Warner?


No. Why waste the time.......?

I suppose you would much rather have Nick Velliquette?

Velliquette's not the answer at 125, everyone knows that. He'll get to wrestle in the open tournaments and get some matches in, but that's it.

Anyone can walk-on the team......

.....including Warner.

[northco]

IF every one remembers correctly Wolfrum, Warner, and Lococo all Signed early at Lindenwood. I think one of them signed then they all kind of fell into place. I think Another reason Wolfrum signed with LU was one of his best friends already wrestled there in Jeremy Wright

[greglanejr]

Lindenwood open is 7 weeks away

[The Knuckler]

hahaha the black superman is an idiot... typical MO wrestling fans that knows nothing about the next level. A kid places once or twice at state and he is a Div. I recruit. Blue chip... boy that word is thrown around way to easliy. Non of those kids are blue chip. Blue chip should be held for kids that are top 10 or so in thier weight classes IN THE NATION, National champs and highschool All-Ameicans. Sumner.... wow. Did he even win state in MO? Was he even in the top 5 best kids at his weight this year. Loccoco would be the only one out of them with a chance at the Div I level, with Wulfrom and Warner having outside shoots if they worked hard and payed their dues. And Vilda... he cant ride a lick. Did he ever even wrestle on the mat? Hey would get rode for days in the Big 12. The fact is there are so many intangibles to being a top prospect at the Div I level and most of it is work ethic. There is a huge difference in the amount wrestling, school work and dedication it takes to compete at a Div I level school such as Mizzou. Thats why a lot of kids opt for a smaller division and school which is a better fit. To bad a lot of good but not " Blue Chippers " dont relize this untill they go Div I, never start and end up dropping out of wrestling. Mostly because they were not ready for that level. They win a state title and get a big head. Nothing wrong with the smaller schools but most kids that are there are there because that where they should be... not because Mizzou or other Div I schools overlooked them. I think Mizzou being pre-season ranked 3rd proves they are making some very good choices when it comes to evaulating talent.

[cardsfsc]

Good points Knuckle.

[wrestlefan19]

hahaha the black superman is an idiot... typical MO wrestling fans that knows nothing about the next level.

^^^Typical Illinois A**hole
I'm guessing...

[The Knuckler]

Wrestlngfan19 you to or an idiot... just because someone says one thing about missouri in a little negative light he must be an outsider. Obviously you know very little. Once again you show your ignorance comparing Warner ot Pascaglia. Neither by no means are Blue chip recruits but Pascaglia does show promise. I believe he placed high at high school nationls making him an All-Amerincan and proving that he can compete at a national level. Warner has done non of this and i dont believe he even competed in any national events. So who should Mizzou go after... you tell me? Mizzou is trying to be NATIONAL CHAMPS not district champs. I believe Warner could be a fine wrestler but anyone could see has some holes in his game which might be more mental than talent wise. No Big 12 school is going to spend much time recruiting kids who dont even wrestle nationaly in the off-season. D-1 is a year around commitment. And like i said before commitment and drive are as important or more at that level than just talent. And Wrestlingfan19 if you dont believe there are Missouri people on this site, just like every other states wrestling websites, who have very little idea about what they are talking about then you should probably take a look in the mirror because your probably one of them.

[fudge tunnel]

Wrestlngfan19 you to or an idiot...

"Hi Kettle. I'm Knuckler, you're black".....

[The Black Superman]

Knuckler....... who said any thing about bluechip ............. i was just saying that these guys are good and should be at a higher level .............. there are a lot worse wrestlers out there and are in D I rooms

your slow.......and..its okay I understrand how u could have gotten confused by my complex sentences........the comma and the period are hard tools grasp.

[fudge tunnel]

the comma and the period are hard tools grasp.

.......so are prepositions....... :roll:

[The Knuckler]

Ok Mr. Superman... you didnt say blue chip recruits. But, you did say they are Div 1 recruits and Mizzou shouldnt have overlooked them. Why should have Mizzou recruited them... tell me? They were not recruited by any Div 1 teams so everyone has overlooked them. Its because they are not the caliber of wrestlers to be RECRUITED by Div 1 schools, escpecially at Mizzous level. Walkons yes, but not recruited by a Big 12 team. Your insame. So if they should be recruited by a Big 12 team then you are in essence saying they are blue chippers or close to it and you are totaly off. You obvious no very little about the difference between wrestling at Mizzou level and wrestling at a NAIA schools level.

[The Knuckler]

Funny fudge tunnel, didnt catch that one. This is a wrestiling forum not an English forum.

[fudge tunnel]

This is a wrestiling forum not an English forum.

Yes, I know this.

However, if you're going to call someone an "idiot", you should know how to correctly structure the sentence in which you do so.

[The Knuckler]

Didnt know my english had to be structurly correct to call someone an idiot. Ill take note, since im new to the forum.

[Super Gay AL]

Didnt know my english had to be structurly correct to call someone an idiot. Ill take note, since im new to the forum.

It's ok "The Knuckler"..... that............sounds..............kinky


:heart: :smt053 :smt045 :smt052 :smt050 :smt049 :smt054 :smt060

[Tito Santana]

Didnt know my english had to be structurly correct to call someone an idiot. Ill take note, since im new to the forum.

It doesn't, unless you want to look like an idiot yourself.

[The Knuckler]

Ok ok you got me on the English. Maybe i was slammed on the head one to many times. But lets talk wraaaasln... bring it Tito.

[RP-in-Nebraska]

It's ok "The Knuckler"..... that............sounds..............kinky


Awe, SGA, what do YOU know about knuckles?!

[WESTONE]

hopefully the above mentioned guys ie wolfrum,warner,coco,sumner will wrestle the LU open and MU bring over their freshmen. We will see how they match up. warner will most likely be hurt or sick but the rest just might surprise.

[The Knuckler]

Westone the argument isnt about what team has better freshman. My argument was from Black Supermans statement that some missouri high school wrestlers are being overlooked by Mizzou. You must look at thier body of work over the next 4 or 5 years. Where these guys such as Loccoco could beat some of Mizzous freshman recruits. I use recruits loosely too. They are probably walk-ons and or with little to no scholarships. But the freshman that Mizzou persued hard and gave nice scholarships to are more likely to finish better in the next few years at Div1 level than say loccoco, wulfrum. summner...ect. Its possible they may not, but thats why they have National level tournys. The kids Mizzou goes after have proven they can wrestle at that level. I personaly think Loccoco is a great wrestler and could compete at Div 1 level. Im just not sure guys like him want to work hard enough in a Mizzou type room or want to handle the pressures of Academia at a bigger school. Its not for everyone and there is nothing wrong with that. But, those are also factors to kids being " Over looked ".
And adding names like Sumner and Vilda was laughable... those guys will probably never start at Lindenwood.

[Warner]

Westone,

You seem to have the gall to get on this web site and dog kids that have put it all on the line for years and years. You don't have the balls to put your name on your postings. I doubt it if you have the balls to do half of what any one of these young men have done.If you would like to further discuss the status of Erik, I would be more than happy to arrange some private time just for you!

Warner

My dad can beat up your dad!

[fudge tunnel]

I would be more than happy to arrange some private time just for you!



I'm sure Super Gay Al would like that.......

[Super Gay AL]

I doubt it if you have the balls
Warner

Enough with the balls talk!!! :^o

[Tito Santana]

JEEEEEEZ :roll:

[wrestlefan19]

Wrestlngfan19 you to or an idiot... just because someone says one thing about missouri in a little negative light he must be an outsider. Obviously you know very little. Once again you show your ignorance comparing Warner ot Pascaglia. Neither by no means are Blue chip recruits but Pascaglia does show promise. I believe he placed high at high school nationls making him an All-Amerincan and proving that he can compete at a national level. Warner has done non of this and i dont believe he even competed in any national events. So who should Mizzou go after... you tell me? Mizzou is trying to be NATIONAL CHAMPS not district champs. I believe Warner could be a fine wrestler but anyone could see has some holes in his game which might be more mental than talent wise. No Big 12 school is going to spend much time recruiting kids who dont even wrestle nationaly in the off-season. D-1 is a year around commitment. And like i said before commitment and drive are as important or more at that level than just talent. And Wrestlingfan19 if you dont believe there are Missouri people on this site, just like every other states wrestling websites, who have very little idea about what they are talking about then you should probably take a look in the mirror because your probably one of them.

gosh it is a good thing we have people such as yourself to make us all look so stupid
what ever would we do if we actually THOUGHT we knew what we were talking about?

[northco]

I'm Defending or going off on NO ONE here. But some other reasons They recruited Pescaglia might have included Grades (Don't know what Warner's were...So Stop), Hometown boy (he is right in their backyard), and just being real familar with him from camps and the wrestling club (a cause of him living in Columbia).

[fudge tunnel]

But some other reasons They recruited Pescaglia might have included Grades (Don't know what Warner's were...So Stop), Hometown boy (he is right in their backyard), and just being real familar with him from camps and the wrestling club (a cause of him living in Columbia).

those, and being a 2x MO state champ and 4th at Senior Nationals.....

[Fist of Love]

Is Warner even enrolled at Lindenwood?

[RandyReversal]

I think with the right coach and situation, both Warner and Sumner could go far in D1. The most important thing in wrestling is heart and noone I've seen in the last 16 years can match Warners, except Tony Doerr. The only wrestler to ever beat him was Bailey and Erik himself. As for Sumner, I saw him totally demolish Mango (7-0) the year Spencer won his second title. And what has Mango done since? And anyone who saw the match knows it was no fluke. The year Sumner lost to Carr in the finals, he demolished him at Lee's Summitt 10-0. Again no fluke. His senior year he battled staph for months, and even being totally out of shape still took second. With the right situation he could have been a 3 timer. Without Bailey and with the right coach Warner could have been a 4 timer.

[fudge tunnel]

Randy-
I know you claim you don't drink.......but you certainly sound a little "totally fu**ing drunk" in your last post. That, or stoned out of your mind. Maybe hopped up on goofballs. How about a little smack? Hittin' the rock?

[NC Play-Cuzins]

Randy-
I know you claim you don't drink.......but you certainly sound a little "totally fu**ing drunk" in your last post. That, or stoned out of your mind. Maybe hopped up on manballs. How about a little love smack in the behind from me? Hittin' the rock?

Bahahaahahhahahahahahaa!!!1

[fudge tunnel]

Ok..........who's editing my posts?.....Mod 1?

:?

bastard.....

[The Knuckler]

RandyReversal is obviously been drinking folks soooo should we even reply to his stupidity? Well i guess we should... Your comparing what a kid did as a freshman in H.S. to him being a Div 1 wrestler. To an Olympic hopefull... in Mango, WOW. That kid was a first year wrestler when Sumner beat him. I think its safe to say Mango had more potential then. Sumner with the right coaches and the right breaks could have been a 3 timer. hahahahaahahahahahah. What.... if there werent better wrestlers than him, and what, if he had Dan Gable as his coach... geez what a retard. Sumner will never start at Lindenwood. He wasnt even if the top 4 best kids at his weight. I guess the Eureka coaches stink and boy that coaching staff at Zumwalt West has done a horrible job. RandyReversal is a typical looser who blames everyone else for their downfalls. A wrestler loses on his own.

I guess there are a couple of 35 year olds running around that beat Sammie Henson in little league. They should probably consider comming out of retirement and try to make the Olympic team, since they beat him back in the day.

And Yes, Wresstlingfan19 you should thank me for for some enlightenment.

[moderator1]

Ok..........who's editing my posts?.....Mod 1?

:?

bastard.....

wasn't me

[fudge tunnel]

Ok..........who's editing my posts?.....Mod 1?

:?

bastard.....

wasn't me

Jonathan said it wasn't him........one of you ******'s is lying........

[oldtimer]

[quote="fudge tunnel":440ca]Ok..........who's editing my posts?.....Mod 1?

:?

bastard.....

wasn't me

Jonathan said it wasn't him........one of you ******'s is lying........[/quote:440ca]

You sure it wasn't you during one of those 2am walking, rocking, crying baby times.

[Tito Santana]

Knuckler
You obviously know a little something about wrestling. Can't you get your point across with out childish name calling?

[cardsfsc]

4th at Senior Nationals

And doesn't he have a little brother that's not too shabby?

[The Knuckler]

Sorry Tito, I would never want to hurt someones feelings on here.

So to all the Idiots out there im sorry... please except my apology.

[The Knuckler]

Ooops and that ACCEPT not except.... dont want to offend my English professors on here either.

[Tito Santana]

Sorry Tito, I would never want to hurt someones feelings on here.

So to all the Idiots out there im sorry... please except my apology.
Nice attempt at humor
Has anyone called you an idiot retard etc...? You must have been bullied as a boy. So now you pretend to be Chuck Norris on the internet. Go get em tough guy. From what I can tell you are the only idiot in this conversation and you support that statement with each new post.

[The Knuckler]

Sorry Tito, seriously i can tell your soft and your feelings are hurt. Sorry honey.

[Super Gay AL]

The more The Knuckler posts, the more I love him. :smt057

[Tito Santana]

Riiiiiight. :roll:

[wrestlefan19]

Sorry Tito, seriously i can tell your soft and your feelings are hurt. Sorry honey.
Okay...now i'm convinced
This is a kid who got thumped by Warner
Maybe Sumner also...

[The Knuckler]

Good job wrestlingfan19 you figured me out... Or maybe im just someone who just got sick of reading so many ignorant statements on this site that i just had to chime in.

[Tito Santana]

Chime in somewhere else. Thats how we feel about you.

[The Knuckler]

Sorry didnt know this was your personal website... Who cares about what u have to say? Hey like i told u before i real sorry if your feeling got hurt.... geeezzzzzzzz.

[wrestlefan19]

Hey like i told u before i real sorry if your feeling got hurt.... geeezzzzzzzz.

I real sorry Erik and Jon stomped you so bad

BTW Sumner beat Mango when Jon was a SOPH, and Mango was a SR...Clearly NOT Mango's first year of wrestling
It would appear your VAST stores of wrestling knowledge aren't doing too hot

[Super Gay AL]

wrestlefan19: Taking "Man Love 101" this year in school?

[wrestlefan19]

Yes, at the community college
Silly SGA you are the instructor

[RandyReversal]

Hey Dumbass Knuckler. When Sumner beat Mango at Howell, Mango was already a state champ AND a senior. Sumner was a sophomore at the time.

[fudge tunnel]

Hey Dumbass Knuckler. When Sumner beat Mango at Howell, Mango was already a state champ AND a senior. Sumner was a sophomore at the time.


:lol:

[obnoxio]

Not to split any hair....

Sumner beat Mango at the Howell NORTH tournament in the opening round at like,,,9am in the morning. I was there. It was the tournament where I met my first love, Mama Zieg..

[The Knuckler]

Ok you got me there. Guess i was so wound up in the outrageous statements everyone that i didnt my facts straignt. Totaly correct that sumner beat mango... but i definetly think it is safe to say they are worlds apart now. And yes Erik, Sumner, Wulfrum, i believe the heavyweight from Odessa beat me... they all beat me. Thats why im so bitter. But, maybe with better coaches and the " Right Situation " i could have beat all of them. Right RandyReversal.

Randy Reversal: "I think with the right coach and situation, both Warner and Sumner could go far in D1" I still must say this is one of the stupidist statements i have ever seen. You could say this for any and everyone. And Randy you still havent explained to us how far they could have gone and why that Zumwalt West staff is sooooo bad. You are right they havent realy been that successful lately. I just think Randy must be an old man who has never wrestled, and definetly never wrestled at any college level or he wouldnt be making such statements. And for the record i think Eric, Jon, and all the rest of those kids are fine wrestlers and deserve all the credit they get. But, lets not make them out or anyone else for what they are not.... Those kids back in the day might have been Mizzou Top recruits, but not in this day.... and we can all agree this is a good thing.

[wrestlefan19]

You could say this for any and everyone.


Oh yes obviously...
Because any and everyone has beaten state champions
and of course everyone medals 3 times with 2 trips to the finals...
:roll:

[Tito Santana]

I thought you were going to work on your grammar. #-o

[The Knuckler]

Ya all those kids that have made it to the finals twice and have 3 medals should go far in D 1s. Is that the conclusion that we have come to? Tito and WrestlingFan, do u realy think he is Div 1 talent? Honestly?

[oldtimer]

I've lost track of whom we are talking about going to a D1 Wrestling program.

[The Knuckler]

Every kid from Mo who has made the state finals....

and Mizzou and other D 1 schools just keep overlooking that talent.

[Tito Santana]

Go back and read my posts Knucklehead. I have never once weighed in on either of the kids you and 19 are arguing about. I just thought you were being a bit rude. This is a forum where opinions are free to be expressed. No one called you stupid, idiot or retard for you opinions. I can count at least a half a dozen times in this thread alone where you have called someone names based on their opinion. And then on top of it you cant back up your argument with any factual statements. Only bad grammar and name calling. Leave me out of your argument. Those kids mentioned are studs nonetheless. And I'm willing to bet that their credentials far outweigh any of yours.

[wrestlefan19]

Ya all those kids that have made it to the finals twice and have 3 medals should go far in D 1s. Is that the conclusion that we have come to? Tito and WrestlingFan, do u realy think he is Div 1 talent? Honestly?
actually I am pretty sure I have already said I don't think Sumner should be D1
However I think you are minimalizing his accomplishments and saying he was not state champion material
I DO think Erik was D1 material he just needed a little work on his nerves
To say that that those 2 are just like every other wrestler is an idiotic statement

[The Knuckler]

Tito you brought yourself into this... go back and look. I recall an idiot comment out of you too. And good they are MO studs... no argument there. And i hopt they do achieve more than i did. But, to do that they will have to prove it in the next few years, because they havent yet. But im sure they have passed you by with thier first trip to the state wrestling tourny.

[oldtimer]

Every kid from Mo who has made the state finals....

and Mizzou and other D 1 schools just keep overlooking that talent.

To follow your argument, I knew a kid a long time ago that was a state champ 185. If he would have wrestled in college, he would have had to wrestle at HWT based on growth after high school.

Now the problem with your argument is 2 fold: 1st: Missouri High School Wrestling doesn't allow or teach "riding". If you can't ride in College, especially D 1, you won't be successful. 2nd: The Natural Weight of a kid in High School and their size and body mass, will not be the same as in college. Some kids get bigger, strong and faster. For some kids, the competition pass them in these categories.

[The Knuckler]

Im not minimalizing his accomplishments.... and yes he very much had the potential to be a state champion just like many out there. But he wasnt. And saying all this stuff is basically making excusses for him. And that takes away the accomplishments of the kids who beat him, fair and square. Jon is a great kid and like you wrestlingfan19 i think Erik was a much better talent than his accomplishments. But with that said, there are lot more intangibles to being a D-1 recruit, than just potential talent and some medals at the MO state championships. Especially at the Big 12 wrestling level.

[Tito Santana]

But im sure they have passed you by with thier first trip to the state wrestling tourny.

Darn you got me there. I wish I could have wrestled in the Hearnes just once. :roll:

[oldtimer]

[quote="The Knuckler":c0e4b] But im sure they have passed you by with thier first trip to the state wrestling tourny.

Darn you got me there. I wish I could have wrestled in the Hearnes just once. :roll:[/quote:c0e4b]

At your age, you better throw Lee's Summit and Warrensburg in there.

[The Knuckler]

Oldtimer i would agree with your arguement about "riding" if it was 5 or 10 years ago. Weve delt with that for a long time... but those days are no longer here. I know it is hard for us to believe, but in MO the referees have been alowing riding more and more over the last few years. And it shows. Look at the national success MO is having. Nothing has ever been like this in the past. Im not talking about freestyle and Greco either. Look at Senior Nationals... Mo has had 5-9 placing every year about. And some or our best arent even going. So i dont agree with the RIDING arguement as much anymore.... but the stall calls do go on with some Refs as we all know to well... and will always untill they finaly kick the bucket.

[oldtimer]

Oldtimer i would agree with your arguement about "riding" if it was 5 or 10 years ago. Weve delt with that for a long time... but those days are no longer here. I know it is hard for us to believe, but in MO the referees have been alowing riding more and more over the last few years. And it shows. Look at the national success MO is having. Nothing has ever been like this in the past. Im not talking about freestyle and Greco either. Look at Senior Nationals... Mo has had 5-9 placing every year about. And some or our best arent even going. So i dont agree with the RIDING arguement as much anymore.... but the stall calls do go on with some Refs as we all know to well... and will always untill they finaly kick the bucket.

I didn't know there was an unofficial attempt to reward riding. I'll go with you on that,,,,I don't know any different.

[The Knuckler]

Wish i could have too Tito but im from Ill.

[Tito Santana]

Knuckler
Now I'll mix it up with you on a wrestling topic. Note how I will refrain from caling you an idiot based onmmy disagreement with your last statement.

Riding is a problem in Missouri. The way stalling is called in MO hurts our topnotch recruits from being succesful D-1 wrestlers. In Mo you are penalized for being a good rider and a mat wrestler. That's why we have so many cut 'em and take em down wrestlers. If you go and look at the trend of MO's finest in the last several years that have went on to wrestle or attemt to wrestle at the D-1 level, they were all takedown machines. Of course being great on your feet is key to success at any level. But it is only one part of being a complete wrestler. Yes some officials are better than others at recognizing this. But someone asked Dale Pleiman years ago why they stressed more neutral position wrestling and he replied (not verbatim) something to the extent of "to make it more exciting/fan friendly" well unfortunately exciting/fan friendly doesnt translate into D-1 success. Just my opinion and I know many other share the same.

[Tito Santana]

Wish i could have too Tito but im from Ill.

We wont hold that against you..........Yes we will.

For the record I wrestled there plenty. Not as much as I would have liked. But nonetheless I had some success.

[The Knuckler]

i agree that there is still way to much cut him and take him down wrestling in MO. And it does go back to the philosophy that its more exciting. Whatever that means. But it has been getting better, a lot better in my openion. And not all our D-1 kids who are successful are just takedown machines. Look at one of the kids from the earlier agrument. Pesciglia from Hickman. Animal on top, and realy not that impressive on his feet. Other kids with national success. Sorry but im real bad with names and we already know my spelling skills are to be desired. But:

Naional H.S. Champ from blue springs
Pescgilia, both of them
Grams.... animals on top with the armbars.
Kid from St. Joes with the tilts a couple of years back.
Heck even Sumner was much better on the mat than on his feet.
I believe Warner was much better on the mat.
Campbell from fox

I know all these kids are nationaly successful but im sure if you look back at our H.S. All-Americans. Many of them were above average on the mat and not just take down machines anymore.

All im saying is that it has come a long way in the last few years. For the first time in my life i see kids ride someone out with 30 seconds left and a 1 point lead with out getting hit. I never thought i would see the day. It is also going to be a slow process not only with gettting all Refs to let kids ride, but how many of their coaches come from the old-school. Probably not many of them were great on the mat.

It is happening, but maybe not at the level we all want yet, but it is. And i think this is clearly one of the reasons why MO is seeing the success they are at National events.

[Tito Santana]

I wasnt saying that we dont have kids that arent good on the mat. Im saying alot of them never develop those talents bacause of the way stalling is called in MO and never have success at the next level, at least not initially.

I said wrestling neutral is more exciting. "whatever that means"

Let me break it down for you. More feet more scoring, scrambling,etc pretty simple. You watch a good college match its usually not fireworks. Its good solid technique with alot of counters and riding. To the everage Joe that isnt very exciting. To a die hard wrestling fan that is great wrestling.

[wrestlefan19]

Naional H.S. Champ from blue springs
Pescgilia, both of them
Grams.... animals on top with the armbars.
Kid from St. Joes with the tilts a couple of years back.
Heck even Sumner was much better on the mat than on his feet.
I believe Warner was much better on the mat.
Campbell from fox



A few things
1. Louis Caputo-stud all around can't really say where he was best at
2. Pascaglia-they are indeed both tough on top
3. Grahams-straight up MEAN on top
4. Blake Peterson I think was his name
5. Sumner seemed to struggle on the mat sometimes to me
6. Warner was pretty good on his feet but he could ride like an animal, and is a beast with the legs in
7. Campbell is a monster on top

I just wish we could see Deron Winn on top a little bit more...

[Tito Santana]

6. Warner was pretty good on his feet but he could ride like an animal, and is a beast with the legs in




Especially when the bottom guy does a standup. 8)

[wrestlefan19]

I do agree with Tito that nuetral wrestling is more exciting
For proof look back at The Vito K vs Greg Benenati title match from 2 yeas ago....the match that i still consider one of the most exciting I have EVER seen...almost the entire match was on their feet, after the takedown it would be a quick escape or a cut, or sometimes a reversal...and then a quick escape

[wrestlefan19]

6. Warner was pretty good on his feet but he could ride like an animal, and is a beast with the legs in




Especially when the bottom guy does a standup. 8)

I think we can all agree that OT is a little bit different
that was stalling I'm not going to lie
not to make excuses but that was the worst match I have seen him wrestle
look at his match against Caswell for proof of his skill on top :shock:

[Tito Santana]

Oh I know I've seen the little animal wrestle. Hes tough and mean as heck. I just couldnt believe he kept throwing that leg in time and again after being dinged repeatedly.

[oldtimer]

Well, back in the day......the only time we got to use Riding on the Mat was Friday night at the girl friends house.

If you were not go for back point all the time,,,,,,stalling.

[Tito Santana]

:lol: you old pervert

[wrestlefan19]

I just couldnt believe he kept throwing that leg in time and again after being dinged repeatedly.

neither could i...
Not to mention I'm pretty sure I saw Hayes tell Warner to cut Green with 30 secs or so left in regulation, with Erik having a 2 or 3 point lead

[The Knuckler]

It was clearly stalling... putting the legs in after a kid stands up is stalling 101 and one of the easiest stall calls for a ref. to make. My question is with all the talent the kid has and having been around wrestling as long as he has. Do you think he did it on purpose? I mean... did he lose the match on purpose, for whatever reason ? Did he throw the leg in again and again to get hit and lose the match? I know this will make someone upset for asking this... but i think its a legit question. Ive never seen someone do something so obvious to a ref. after being warned over and over not to do it agian. The ref gave him numerous chances and actually held back i feel a couple of times where he could have hit him. He gave him more chances than i had ever seen a ref give. So without over analyzing it do you think he did it on purpose or not? If this out of line please tell me because im not one for to much sesitivity. ( sorry Tito ). Right or wrong, I just call it how i see it. No sugar coating.

[Tito Santana]

To imply that a kid like Warner intentionally lost a match, especially his senior year in the semi's against a kid from OP who is team is in a chamionship race with is completely asinine. I think he succumbed to all the pressure is all. Do you have a personal vendetta against Warner?

[The Knuckler]

Not in the least bit... just a question. You know asking questions or making statements that are openion, about a situation, doesnt always have to mean you a vendetta against someone. Or that kid must have kicked my butt or accomplished more. Its a question Tito... yes or no question. You think No.. ok good job you aswered. Leave it at that. You assume way to much on a message board. You are way to sensitive.

[The Knuckler]

And i think if you read in my earlier responses... i said many times i think the kid is very talented, even a possible D-1 talent in my openion. I think he is very tuff wrestle and liked his style, but like you are someone else said, he mght be dealing with some mental toughness issues.

[Tito Santana]

I must be sensitive because I disagree with you on just about everything you say. And by the looks of it everyone else does as well. You say you dont sugar coat anything. I dont think you rationalize or comprehend anything either. The reason I ask if you have a vendetta is because this is the only topic you post on and Warner and Sumner are the only kids you make mention of again and again. That certainly implies that for some reason you dislike them. This will be my last reply to you. You cant make any statements without childish remarks and name calling. Your statements/opinions have no factual basis they are only made out of jealousy and spite. Your giving me a headache. Good Day.

[The Knuckler]

hahahahahaha go back and read the post.... it started with a Black Superman making some silly comments. And a few people laughed at it. You started in with me, and just like a little woman you get all sensitive and cry. Tina go to bed... and it hurts me that all 4 people posting on here dont agree. And agree with what anyways? its was a question... you IDIOT.

[Tito Santana]

hahahahahaha go back and read the post.... it started with a Black Superman making some silly comments. And a few people laughed at it. You started in with me, and just like a little woman you get all sensitive and cry. Tina go to bed... and it hurts me that all 4 people posting on here dont agree. And agree with what anyways? its was a question... you IDIOT.

:roll:

[mconn]

:-k

[wrestlefan19]

\:D/

[ZumwaltWest]

I have an idea!!! Why don't Tito and Knuckle Head just e-mail back and forth instead wasting storage space on our forum??? :smt102 You can cc the Old Man if you want. I'm getting tired of clicking on here and thinking that maybe someone said something worth reading about and I end up reading this. :smt078


:-D

[Tito Santana]

:-({|=

[oldtimer]

I have an idea!!! Why don't Tito and Knuckle Head just e-mail back and forth instead wasting storage space on our forum??? :smt102 You can cc the Old Man if you want. I'm getting tired of clicking on here and thinking that maybe someone said something worth reading about and I end up reading this. :smt078


:-D

Who are calling an Old Man.......I come over the STL and kick young your ##S.

:-D

Can somebody give me a ride to St. Louis. The State won't give me my license back......

[Tito Santana]

Can I drive your car? We can head to Illinois after that. :lol:

[oldtimer]

Back to the issue at hand........MIZZOU is coming to kick Lendenwood butt.

[Flinch]

Lindenwood might win a match because a mizzou wrestler slipped on their weigh to the mat, and broke an ankle or something. You say Smith isn't a good recruiter? Well, then that just means he's a hell of a coach. Look at what he did with Chandler last year, who came out of no where. Or T-Mac, if these kids weren't great recruits, then the coaching must have made them into what they are....

[wrestlefan19]

Lindenwood might win a match because a mizzou wrestler slipped on their weigh to the mat, and broke an ankle or something. You say Smith isn't a good recruiter? Well, then that just means he's a hell of a coach. Look at what he did with Chandler last year, who came out of no where. Or T-Mac, if these kids weren't great recruits, then the coaching must have made them into what they are....

Will Warner, Wolfrum, and Coco start?
I'm guessing they will go 125, 149, and 157
so I guess it would be:
Warner vs Kephart
Wolfrum vs Wagner
lococococoococococococococcococcoccocococococococo coco vs Chandler

[Missinglink]

Are any of these matchups going to take place this season? Someone refresh my memory, does Lindenwood & Missouri participate in any common meets? If I remember correctly, last year Mizzou only brought their JV wrestlers to the Lindenwood Open.

[Louden]

I like cheeseburgers.

[RealFighter13]

chandler would kill loococo by a major

[obnoxio]

I have a question. When is this big match up gonna go down???

Three or four years of college wrestling makes one a man,,,,something that Warner, Wolfie and Lococo haven't acquired yet.

[urpinned]

The more The Knuckler posts, the more I love him. :smt057 ROFLMFAO

[greglanejr]

TOP!

[WESTONE]

hopefully the above mentioned guys ie wolfrum,warner,coco,sumner will wrestle the LU open and MU bring over their freshmen. We will see how they match up. warner will most likely be hurt or sick but the rest just might surprise.

Just wondering where warner was at the lu open and any chance of seeing him at the mu open?

[JakeRoberts]

Any chance of them bringing back this dual meet?

[fudge tunnel]

Now that Mizzou has become a top-flight program, I don't see them scheduling the CMSU's and Lindenwood's of the world. Those matches aren't going to help them come March...

[northco]

Actually I think the Missouri Open has been changed to the Missouri Dual (not for Sure) and if Lindenwood was in that Well then they might meet.

[Thfzn]

Back when I was in college MU hosted the Missouri duals which at the time was MU, NEMO (Truman), CMSU (UCM), and SMSU (Missouri State).

I don't think it would be bad for MU to kick off the season with a dual tournament featuring the Missouri schools.

MU

Bye

Hannibal

Mo Bap

Mo Valley

UCM

Truman

Lindenwood

There is your bracket.

I heard that way back when they had the all-Missouri tournament which featured the following schools:

UMSL, Wash U., NEMO, SMSU, SEMO, MU, NWMO, MO - Rolla, Lincoln, Forest Park CC, Flo Valley CC, Meremec CC, Culver-Stockton

Can anyone confirm this?

[Vanilla Gorilla]

The last time that LU dueled Mizzou, neither team was ranked very high in heir respective organization. I think 2000 is the last one I remember. An All-Missouri dual tournament would be pretty cool to watch.

[The Taxi]

Missouri held a quad in 2004 where they dualed Lindenwood, Mo Valley and Mo Bap in the same night. I don't remember if any team scored a team point against Mizzou. They wrestled their starters, too.

[CuriousGrandpa]

This wouldn't even be a competition. But fun to watch!

[Thfzn]

Lindenwood is much deeper today than in 2004. Would MU win? Sure...but wrestling the NAIA champions wouldn't exactly be a night off for the tigers. Plus the meet would attract alot of attention, much more than in 2004 or earlier. An all-Missouri tournament would be a great way to promote the sport.

[The Taxi]

From what I remember, both Missouri Valley and Lindenwood were top five in NAIA, all four teams brought all of their starters, and the dual scores were all fifty-something to nothing. They wrestled MoBap, then MoValley, then Lindenwood, one after another. After being a part of that, I don't think any other wrestling school in Missouri will come close to beating Mizzou. Not then, not now, and not five years from now.

[StankonmyHanglow]

From what I remember, both Missouri Valley and Lindenwood were top five in NAIA, all four teams brought all of their starters, and the dual scores were all fifty-something to nothing. They wrestled MoBap, then MoValley, then Lindenwood, one after another. After being a part of that, I don't think any other wrestling school in Missouri will come close to beating Mizzou. Not then, not now, and not five years from now.


Perhaps Missouri would be better served :lol: matching angst with Ohio State University.

[That_Guy]

After taking a beating from Mizzou in 07' the boys from Ohio called for an end to the series with Missouri. Kinda like the "Fighting" Illini who loved wrestling Mizzou in St. Louis for a number of years, then Missouri starts to get the best of it in the border war and the Illini ended the series.

Maybe Ohio State should wrestle Lindenwood.

[The Taxi]

That's true, I remember going to Meramec to watch the duals between Illinois and Mizzou, that would have been a great dual these past few years. I wonder why they don't do it anymore?