Updated Rankings 1/24/06 [Archive] - MissouriWrestling.com

The Godfather

01-24-2006, 10:29 AM

Thanks for the updated rankings...they look good. Just wanted to voice my opinion on a few though.

1) How does J. Nay move to 1st and M. Bolin move to 2nd after one match? If I recall correctly, we (rankingcommittee and myself) had a conversation regarding the decision to make Bradley #1 at HWT. and Crossett #2. The reasoning was that they were 1-1 head to head, Bradley had 1 loss and Crossett had 2 losses. If we're using the same logic, M. Bolin and J. Nay are 1-1 head to head, Bolin has 2 losses and Nay has 5 losses (thanks for the info, Pollock). Just wondering how Jacob Nay's move to number 1 can be justified.

2) Mike Tracy and Rico Williams move to #'s 6 and 7 after one weekend of wrestling? Just curious to see if I missed anything here...

Scrap Iron

01-24-2006, 10:43 AM

Ya think you can squeeze a coupla more boys into 140 and 145?
Some programs are being slighted.

Ranking Committee

01-24-2006, 10:43 AM

The answer to the Nay/Bolin question is common opponent.
On the 160 issue, what a mess that one has been all year. How would you rank 160?

Ranking Committee

01-24-2006, 10:44 AM

Ya think you can squeeze a coupla more boys into 140 and 145?
Some programs are being slighted.

Please share.

Scrap Iron

01-24-2006, 10:53 AM

[quote="Scrap Iron":a70a8]Ya think you can squeeze a coupla more boys into 140 and 145?
Some programs are being slighted.

Please share.[/quote:a70a8]

Twenty is plenty (poetry)

I was just kidding!!!

I forgot to say thanks for the rankings. Thanks for the rankings

The Godfather

01-24-2006, 11:45 AM

The answer to the Nay/Bolin question is common opponent.
On the 160 issue, what a mess that one has been all year. How would you rank 160?

I assume the common opponent your referring to is Brian Shelton from El Reno, where Nay lost 7-3 while Bolin lost by fall? Just kind of curious as to why it is just now being updated (I think there was already an update between now and then). What other common opponents have they had?

I agree that 160 is tough to rank...I just had a hard time grasping how Tracy could go from #2 to #6 just by losing to the #1 guy. What criteria was used here?

I know you guys do alot of research and I was just curious how you came up with those changes, that's all...wasn't taking a stab at your work, if it was perceived that way.

RP-in-Nebraska

01-24-2006, 11:48 AM

I assume the common opponent your referring to is Brian Shelton from El Reno, where Nay lost 7-3 while Bolin lost by fall? Just kind of curious as to why it is just now being updated (I think there was already an update between now and then). What other common opponents have they had?

Until Saturday, Bolin had won the only match between them. At Winnetonka, Nay won and therefore they are 1-1 against each other. That is why the change happened now.

The Godfather

01-24-2006, 11:55 AM

[quote="The Godfather":bf15e]

I assume the common opponent your referring to is Brian Shelton from El Reno, where Nay lost 7-3 while Bolin lost by fall? Just kind of curious as to why it is just now being updated (I think there was already an update between now and then). What other common opponents have they had?

Until Saturday, Bolin had won the only match between them. At Winnetonka, Nay won and therefore they are 1-1 against each other. That is why the change happened now.[/quote:bf15e]

Again, my argument is consistency. Bradley remained #1 over Crossett even after they went 1-1. The only explanation given at the time was the "record theory". If we're talking about losing to a kid that is ranked #5 nationally and Nay stays within 5 points of him while Bolin gets pinned, I think the ranking changes then. If we're going by the "record theory", then Bolin should stay #1 even after losing to Nay. I understand what you're both saying but I just wanted to bring it up for conversation sake.

RP-in-Nebraska

01-24-2006, 11:58 AM

Hey, man, I'm just telling you why it happened now. According to your earlier post, I thought that was your confusion. Now I see that you are confused on a number of other issues. :-D

The Godfather

01-24-2006, 12:01 PM

:smt067 RP-in-Nebraska

MG_Grievous

01-24-2006, 12:03 PM

:smt067 RP-in-Nebraska

I have a pic you could use in place of his name. :lol:

...but I doubt it's TOS appropriate.

The Godfather

01-24-2006, 12:07 PM

[quote="The Godfather":25ac1]:smt067 RP-in-Nebraska

I have a pic you could use in place of his name. :lol:

...but I doubt it's TOS appropriate.[/quote:25ac1]

Come on now, MG...you made me curious. If it's as good as the "If I had a nickle for everytime you said something stupid, I would buy this gun and shoot you in the face", I think we would be in for a real treat.

Speaking of which, I used that line at the bar last Friday night...everybody got a kick out of it except the guy that I said it to. :lol:

MG_Grievous

01-24-2006, 12:12 PM

Come on now, MG...you made me curious. If it's as good as the "If I had a nickle for everytime you said something stupid, I would buy this gun and shoot you in the face", I think we would be in for a real treat.

I made it myself, but never had the chance to post it. It'll come soon enough. O:)

Speaking of which, I used that line at the bar last Friday night...everybody got a kick out of it except the guy that I said it to.

=D>

Sounds like T.D.C.Dad's.....urrr uhhh....Freakshow's reaction.

Ranking Committee

01-24-2006, 12:22 PM

[quote="Ranking Committee":d596a]The answer to the Nay/Bolin question is common opponent.
On the 160 issue, what a mess that one has been all year. How would you rank 160?

I assume the common opponent your referring to is Brian Shelton from El Reno, where Nay lost 7-3 while Bolin lost by fall? Just kind of curious as to why it is just now being updated (I think there was already an update between now and then). What other common opponents have they had?

I agree that 160 is tough to rank...I just had a hard time grasping how Tracy could go from #2 to #6 just by losing to the #1 guy. What criteria was used here?

I know you guys do alot of research and I was just curious how you came up with those changes, that's all...wasn't taking a stab at your work, if it was perceived that way.[/quote:d596a]

Godfather,
Please DO continue the questions, they are all good and welcome. When we discussed the Bradley/Crossett situation, it was early in the season and if I recall there weren't really any ranked wrestler common opponents between Bradley and Crossett. We defaulted to records and the fact that Bradley is a returning Champion. Since then, there are ranked common opponents, Johnson for one. RP answered the Bolin Nay question plus there are others. On the 160 subject again, look at the losses also. We don't have everything perfect and if anyone presents a case with detail, it will be evaluated.

Wrestler06

01-24-2006, 12:26 PM

is the record theory the same used with barnett and ott

Ranking Committee

01-24-2006, 12:35 PM

is the record theory the same used with barnett and ott

Common opponent Rampley, two close matches for OTT vs 16-10 for Barnett with 1-1 head to head.

Ranking Committee

01-24-2006, 12:49 PM

160 ranking history:
Brandon Lococo - 1 at 152 , 2 at 152 , 2 at 152 , 1 , 1 , 1
Donald Woods - 3 at 171 , 1 , 3 , 6 , 3 , 2
Tyson Campbell - 4 , 4 , 4 , 7 , 5 , 3
Kyle Foley - 6 , 5 , 5 , 4 , 6 , 4
Clarence Neely - 7 , 8 , 8 , HM , HM , 5
Mike Tracy - 3 , 2 , 1 , 2 , 4 , 6
Rico Williams - 2 , 3 , 2 , 3 , 2 , 7
Mat Koelling - 2 , 6 , 6 , 5 , 7 , 8

The Godfather

01-24-2006, 12:50 PM

Godfather,
Please DO continue the questions, they are all good and welcome. When we discussed the Bradley/Crossett situation, it was early in the season and if I recall there weren't really any ranked wrestler common opponents between Bradley and Crossett. We defaulted to records and the fact that Bradley is a returning Champion. Since then, there are ranked common opponents, Johnson for one. RP answered the Bolin Nay question plus there are others. On the 160 subject again, look at the losses also. We don't have everything perfect and if anyone presents a case with detail, it will be evaluated.

I just wanted to make sure the Bolin/Nay thing didn't have to do with the name on the back of Nay's singlet :lol:

Who has Tracy lost to besides Lococo? I guess my point here goes back to the comment I made during the Bradley/Crossett conversation...My belief is that performance, strength of opponents, etc. should be looked at rather than the record.

Ranking Committee

01-24-2006, 01:01 PM

Tyson Cambell, Donald Woods, Stephen Dopp.

FYI,
There is A ranker. There are others this individual consults with as he can't see every match. There is a spokesperson and data collector. :smt039 Guess who? That indidual gets the rankings every week and checks it against the data. There is feedback sent to THE ranker if appropriate and THE ranker finalizes the ranking. That individual is very knowledgable, has ranked class 4 since the website was established and is from St. Louis. I can assure you there is no bias. :-D

Smith has tried to bribe us but we shut him down.
My bad, since MJ left us.

The Godfather

01-24-2006, 01:06 PM

Tyson Cambell, Donald Woods, Stephen Dopp.

FYI,
There is A ranker. There are others this individual consults with as he can't see every match. There is a spokesperson and data collector. :smt039 Guess who? That indidual gets the rankings every week and checks it against the data. There is feedback sent to THE ranker if appropriate and THE ranker finalizes the ranking. That individual is very knowledgable, has ranked class 4 since the website was established and is from St. Louis. I can assure you there is no bias. :-D

I was just giving you crap with the Oak Park comment :D

If this is the ranker that has been doing the rankings since the beginning of this website, that means you're MJ...

fudge tunnel

01-24-2006, 01:07 PM

spokesperson----> :partyman: <----data collector

The Godfather

01-24-2006, 01:08 PM

spokesperson----> :partyman: <----data collector :lol:

alumnus

01-24-2006, 01:44 PM

Todd Hall from Fox at 112 beat Irving from Lind. Just throwing that out there.

Louden

01-24-2006, 01:50 PM

Ranking Committee is not MJ.

Ranking Committee

01-24-2006, 01:54 PM

Todd Hall from Fox at 112 beat Irving from Lind. Just throwing that out there.

Irving won at the dual with Northwest against Vito Krischke also. One win is not neccessarily a justification for advancing one wrestler over another. There are several examples this year. We appreciate the information, it is not in the data we use. Running behind on dual updates.

The Godfather

01-24-2006, 02:07 PM

One win is not neccessarily a justification for advancing one wrestler over another.

:lol: Sorry, I just had to laugh...

RP-in-Nebraska

01-24-2006, 02:16 PM

Class 3 135 lbs has the same thing going on as class 4 160 lbs. 6 or 7 of the ranked wrestlers all have some wins and some losses against the other ranked wrestlers. It comes down to common opponents, who has the most wins against ranked wrestlers, etc.

Ranking Committee

01-24-2006, 02:17 PM

[quote="Ranking Committee":d6b72]One win is not neccessarily a justification for advancing one wrestler over another.

:lol: Sorry, I just had to laugh...[/quote:d6b72]

Which one are you hung up on Puckett? Still the Crossett thing?

The Godfather

01-24-2006, 02:20 PM

[quote="The Godfather":f134f][quote="Ranking Committee":f134f]One win is not neccessarily a justification for advancing one wrestler over another.

:lol: Sorry, I just had to laugh...[/quote:f134f]

Which one are you hung up on Puckett? Still the Crossett thing?[/quote:f134f]

Nothing...nevermind...I just thought it was funny...no reason at all. :roll:

Ranking Committee

01-24-2006, 02:26 PM

[quote="Ranking Committee":7c932][quote="The Godfather":7c932][quote="Ranking Committee":7c932]One win is not neccessarily a justification for advancing one wrestler over another.

:lol: Sorry, I just had to laugh...[/quote:7c932]

Which one are you hung up on Puckett? Still the Crossett thing?[/quote:7c932]

Nothing...nevermind...I just thought it was funny...no reason at all. :roll:[/quote:7c932]

Nothing...nevermind?... What is funny?... No reson at all? You just want to do nothing and poke fun at the ranking because you don't like it. :smt089 Show us what you have. :smt100

The Godfather

01-24-2006, 02:32 PM

Nothing...nevermind?... What is funny?... No reson at all? You just want to do nothing and poke fun at the ranking because you don't like it. :smt089 Show us what you have. :smt100

I just thought the comment was funny about "One win is not neccessarily a justification for advancing one wrestler over another" with what just happened in the Nay/Bolin ranking. We've already talked about it so don't get your panties in a bunch...I just thought it was funny that you made that comment in the same thread.

\:D/

oxman

01-24-2006, 02:48 PM

Ranking Committee---I personally think your rankings are very thorough and...........
AWESOME!!!!... =D>
8)

BigTime44

01-24-2006, 02:50 PM

Does anyone know Densons record or who he has lost to?

The Godfather

01-24-2006, 03:02 PM

Ranking Committee---I personally think your rankings are very thorough and...........
AWESOME!!!!... =D>
8)

:smt045

Mid-South Wrangler

01-24-2006, 03:33 PM

Its too bad we all get caught up in the "who should be ranked where" saga right before the most meaningful wrestling takes place. (I'm guilty of it too) But its really a moot point. The wrestlers will do all the "ranking" for everyone within the next month. There will be no dispute then.

fudge tunnel

01-24-2006, 03:40 PM

But its really a moot point.

Rev. Jesse Jackson - "The point.......is moot!"

The Godfather

01-24-2006, 03:54 PM

stillman

01-24-2006, 04:24 PM

I think the ranking comittee does a great job!

I think Ox's avtars are 8)

alumnus

01-24-2006, 05:27 PM

to ranking committee. I wasnt' saying he should be ranked over him. Just throwing the information out there in case you missed it. I would never want to rank the kids, it is a very tough job, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with you and think you do a good job.

LoseWeight-FeelGreat

01-24-2006, 09:30 PM

if you are all saying that 1 win isnt justification enough to put one wrestler ahead of the other in the rankings in the bolin vs nay case then it is the same with tracy and williams. i dont see how tracy moved ahead of him just by that win and anyone who saw that match should agree. rico got the only offensive point and tracy only got points from escapes and cautions. if you went by common opponents then you would see that rico lost to lococo by dec and tracy lost by fall in the first. and i still dont get how after this one weekend those 2 went from 2 and 3 all the way down to 6 and 7.

Old Man

01-24-2006, 09:39 PM

I say they are still both over rated.

Spartanfan56

01-25-2006, 06:58 AM

Ranking Committee

For someone to be able to rank 160, would have to make them a genius. this weight class is so competitive from 1-HM. Lococo remains the only unbeaten and obviously deserves #1. After him though you have a handful of guys who could fill the 2-8 slots. Each wrestler has beaten somebody that another has lost to.

Donald Woods
Dec. over Tracy by one
Lost to Burke by one
2 Decs. over Espey both by one point
I believe he also lost to Koelling but not sure

Mike Tracy
Lost to Burke by 1
Lost to Woods by 1
Lost to Lococo by 2 and got pinned
Beat Espey by 2
Beat Williams
1-1 against Tyson Campbell

Kyle Foley
Lost to Espey in DOT
Beat Koelling twice

Clarence Neely
had some losses earlier in year but has since beat undefeated Burke and also Koelling.

Also you have to factor in Tyson Campbell, Rico Williams, Mat Koelling, and some of the HM such as Cambell from LS.

This weight class cannot be ranked appropriatly until after we see how they do at state. Keep up the good work, we all appreciate it and know your doing the best you can.

Ranking Committee

01-25-2006, 07:36 AM

Spartanfan,
Thanks for the research. In addition, Woods has a loss to Bowman at 171 and according to the Post records, another loss but we can't confirm it. His loss to Koelling was 3-2.

We don't factor it in but Tracey lost to Kyle Cambell of Lee's Summit by a few points at Fall Brawl. He lost to Steven Dopp at SCW by fall in the third period according to results, it would be nice to get some match details. He had a close match with Locke.

What a mess but no worries. I sent the ranking file to Puckett and he will figure it out for us. :D

We have tried to maintain consistency in the ranks, sometimes it gets difficult.

The Godfather

01-25-2006, 07:39 AM

What a mess but no worries. I sent the ranking file to Puckett and he will figure it out for us. :D

:lol:

We have tried to maintain consistency in the ranks, sometimes it gets difficult.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Smith

01-25-2006, 08:12 AM

fudge tunnel

01-25-2006, 08:24 AM

Congrats to Mat Koelling for being accepted into Columbia University and Duke University.

That's great and all.......but did he even try to get into Mo Valley?

Smith

01-25-2006, 08:29 AM

Actually he did and was sent away (actually thought the town was too big for him as well) so he settled for Columbia or Duke.

01-25-2006, 08:30 AM

Warren Haynes

01-25-2006, 09:12 AM

Congrats to Mat Koelling for being accepted into Columbia University and Duke University. What a great kid with an incredible future ahead of him. I believe Mat is going to be a Blue Devil with Tulley and Harms.

It'd be tough to pass up Columbia. Going Ivy and going to school in NYC. Now that would be fun.

fudge tunnel

01-25-2006, 09:21 AM

I agree, Columbia would be hard to pass up.....but it doesn't really offer the same type of "college environment" that Duke does. Plus at Duke, he can redshirt his 1st year. Also at CU, if you leave the campus and take a wrong turn.....it can get "interesting".......though it is pretty close to Central Park.

....and the Hudson River... :vom: