liberty nationals

[bill gossett]

liberty nationals feb 25, municipal auditorium kansas city, mo
entry deadline feb 6th.

brand new high school division, looks to be very interesting based on response from around the nation.

http://www.libertynationalswrestling.com

i will start posting non missouri stand outs last week in january. anticipated 1700 wrestlers 40 states, based on last few years.

more info:
bill@libertynationalswrestling.com

[bill gossett]

high school division will have a 4 pound wieght allowance.

thanks
bill

[Someone]

Does this interest the area high schools or club programs since this is one week after state. Does anybody know any teams in state or out of state attending.

[bill gossett]

someone,

i have strong entries from all around the nation right now in the high school division. the big horn nationals and the dixie nationals both had high school divisions and many of the wrestlers are traveling the circuit.

i will start posting non missouri entries that are stand outs at the end of the month. a week or so before the deadline.

hope that helps.

thanks
bill

[backstep]

4 lbs is way to much. there is a lot of kids that do not cut any thing that would love to wrestl in this ,but if you give 4lbs thay will not be abale to . if you give that many pounds than you should go by jr or cadet class'

[JBolin]

I agree, leave the original weight classes, NO weight allowance, kids can wrestle were they are or control their weight a little longer if they want to wrestle at a lower weight. Glad to see another Folkstyle Tourn. for kids that do not like Freestyle.

[bill gossett]

jbolin and backstep,

at first i agreed with you, but as i analyzed it and spoke with lot's of coaches in missouri and all the members of the america crown national steering committee, we decided on the allowance because the wrestlers that just participated in missouri high school state just got 3 pounds allowance on the final day. as did many other high schoolers from other states that would be just finishing their state tournaments.

we decided to give one more pound for the extra week.

it did'nt make sense to give 3 pounds the weekend before and not give any pounds the next weekend.

if no allowance had been given at mo high school state or the other state tourneys then i would agree with you 100% .

hope that helps. i always want you all to feel free to constructively critisize the events. it makes the events better. i am not always going to do everything right, but together we can all lift wrestling up to show people what a great sport it is and missouri's love of the sport.

thanks
bill

[backstep]

thats all well and good but kids will drop they wont stay where there at . and next yr the most kids will ever get is 2 lbs so lets get them use to it

[sweaty teddy]

The rules are changing for next year to curb the weight loss issues associated with this sport...For the current year, on January 15th, you get a 2lb allowance....One more pound between districts and state and 1 more each day at state...Assuming you make it to the medal rounds Saturday you are up 5lbs from scratch....Why would we make these wrestlers cut back to scratch which is contradictory to the nexis of new rules that go into effect next year, which is to eliminate dramatic weight cutting....When the new rules go into effect for next year and everyone is on the same playing field we will adjust the allowances...

[backstep]

thats cool then :roll: but if your going to give 5 lbs than you should just chage the class' to like every 7lbs or some thing like that . because like i said on my other post kids will drop . just like the do as soon as they get the 2lbs on the 14th .

[kcfan]

I agree with backstep and JBolin. If an allowance must be given make it the 2 lb given on the 1st day of state or any other tournament this time of year.

A 103 lb + 4 is no longer a 103 lb weight class and this is the weight class that is most impacted. There are a lot of very good small 103 lb wrestlers across the state that could compete with almost any other 103. What they can't do is compete with kids weighing 115 or more that cut down to 103. They have to battle all year with kids much bigger and then when the 2 lb allowance is given there are several more wrestlers they have to compete with at Districts and State.

[Bob Pollock]

[JustAMom]

Wrestlers should be required to wrestle the same weight that they wrestled at the State Meet. That would eliminate dropping weight classes.

[cementMixer]

Wrestlers should be required to wrestle the same weight that they wrestled at the State Meet. That would eliminate dropping weight classes.

How many kids drop weight after state?

[JustAMom]

I didn't see Bob's post before I made my post. I like his better! :-D

[kcfan]

My point was not so much about kids dropping weights as it was allowing a kid to weigh so much more than scratch weight.

I don’t think there would be many 112s dropping to 103 for this tournament, but you can bet that a kid that’s been cutting for 103 will take full advantage of 4 lbs. The point I was trying to make is there are several good wrestlers that weigh in the 97 to 103 lb range. I would hate to guess exactly how much they would be giving up by the end of the day to a kid that cut hard to make 107 early in the morning.

I do agree with the points made about not letting them wrestle lower than they did at state. That would stop a lot of middle weights from moving around.

[Greg]

I don't think there will be as much weight cutting as everyone thinks. Most kids after the state tournament are tired of cutting weight and don't want to do it any longer. I think if Bill wouldn't have done this you would have had the opposite effect, half the kids maintaining their high school weight class with the other half saying the heck with it and moving up a weight class. Then instead of possibly being unfair to some 103 pounders, most of the weight classes would have been affected. I know one of mine who is wrestling 112 flat out said he wasn't going to go 112 for Liberty when he thought it was scratch weight or even a two pound allowance. Four pounds made a difference and he really isn't even cutting that much weight (compared to some other kids) to get to 112. As a side note he wouldn't even consider cutting to 107 and he is only a mid-size 112. I think everyone needs to keep in mind that traditionally for many wrestlers the week after State is when they look forward to eating.

I think the key point is that this tournament is a week after State. If this tournament was at the end of March, I would agree with Jeff and others to keep it at scratch weight because it would a Spring/Summer Tournament, but because it is a week after State it is almost an extension of the high school season. Plus the wrestlers are no longer going to have a high school practice to help them keep their weight down.

[Greg]

There is also another perspective to this tournament and that is the marketing of the tournament. I think the entire Missouri wrestling community benefits if the Liberty High School Division takes off. This is the first year of the tournament so Bill has to make this tournament enticing to all of the out of state high school elite wrestlers. These kids are just like our kids and will be tired of cutting after a long season, but will be hesitant jump to a higher weight class. I think this season especially Bill needs to make this tournament as easy to digest as possible in order to attract the widest possible participation. If this tournament takes off it will be our wrestlers that benefit because it will bring in top level competition for them to wrestle against that otherwise they would have to travel far out of state to see.

[kcfan]

but because it is a week after State it is almost an extension of the high school season. Plus the wrestlers are no longer going to have a high school practice to help them keep their weight down.

I agree it’s almost an extension of the season. If it were another state tournament it would fall under +2 lbs.

As I stated earlier, my post was mainly for true 103 lb wrestlers. You also mention if you don't give +4 it would have the opposite effect with half the wrestlers moving up a weight class. What’s wrong with that? If you have a 112 wrestler that doesn’t want to make scratch or 114 but is willing to make 116 why not wrestle 119 or a 125 weighing in at 129 wrestling 130. Is it possible they wouldn’t want to give up too much weight against elite wrestlers? My point is this; they all have an option with the exception of one weight class (103).

I’m glad to see a high school division regardless of the weight allowances and I agree 100%. This is great for Missouri wrestling.

[fowler]

In the case for some it will allow them to go down a weight class.

[bill gossett]

folks,

the genie is out of the bottle now. i can't change it for this year. we will all analyize how it works this year and implement improvements for the 07 season.

originally, i wanted the weight classes to be scratch, but i had an overwhelming base of coaches and steering committee members, convince me to change, with some strong arguements.

i like the debate, it is pushing me to have substantative wrestling philosophy on all the decisions we make about this event.

thanks
bill

[fowler]

Are the kids that dont cut atleast going to be allowed to go a class?

[bill gossett]

fowler,

i am not sure i understand your question?

it is an open national championships for all high schoolers. the high school open division is inclusive of all states, weights, classes, etc, etc, .

does that help?

bill

[fowler]

Sorry,,i didnt clarify. Is there going to be restrictions on kids wrestling at the weight they wrestle during high school season or can they take advantage of the 4 pounds and go down 1 weight class. For example my kid is at 145, does not cut weight, can he take advantage of the 4 pounds and wrestle 140.

[bill gossett]

fowler,

that is whats great about wrestling. you can wrestle whatever weight you make. if you don't want to lose weight than wrestle your natural weight.

i am attempting to make this event as wrestler and coach friendly as possible, just like the k thru 8th grade portion.

no fancy participation rules, no fine print, you don't have to jump thru 29 hoops with a committee of faceless bureaucrats watching your every move.

just make weight and wrestle. the ref and your practice time will take care of the rest.

thanks
bill

[lucky]

I think if you dont give the allowances alot of wrestlers would not come.I think the whole purpose of having tournament is to pull as many competitors in having a more competive tournament. Every tournament has some drawbacks, could be at bottom of age group or etc....
I hope the highschool division is sucessful.

[howlowcanyougo]

Will graduating seniors be able to participate in the tournament?

[bill gossett]

howlowcanyougo,

yes seniors are fine as long as they are still in high school at the time and have not already graduated.

i have a question, the weight allowance seems to be more about the 103 pound division.

what if i added a 98 pound weight class to the high school division with no allowance?

bill

[backstep]

good call :D

[bill gossett]

backstep,

i am assuming "good call" means you like the added weight class idea. we will see what others say.

bill

[Frank Castle]

98 would be a good thing i can thank of a few realy good kids that would be fun to watch like mango , tyler ,murrey, and slyeder,

[Scrap Iron]

just list the brackets, medals and weight classes as:

107,116,123,129,134.139,144,149,156,164,175,193,21 9,279

Some of those weight classes are retired College and High School wt. classes

[bill gossett]

scrap iron,

thats interesting.