Contenders for the Granite City Holiday Tournament

[Southern_Hospitality]

In no particular order, here are the top contenders for each weight for the Granite City Holiday Tournament. Let me know if I left out any of the top 5 contenders?

103

Matt Steyer (McClure. North)
Jake Waterkotte (Northwest)
Mac Bailey (Oak Park)
Brock Summers (Lindbergh)
Collin Allgire (Belleville West

112

Vito Krishke (Northwest)
Wendell Jones (Hazelwood Centra)
Marty Uehlin (Oak Park)
Josh Galbraith (Belleville West)
Chad Lunn (Edwardsville)

119

Joe Green (Oak Park)
Robby Brooks (Howell North)
A.J. Ciccarelli (Edwardsville)
Zach McIntyre (Mt. Zion)

125

Jacob Nay (Oak Park)
Kyle Hatchell (Howell North)
Tommy Hill (Roxana)
Tyrez Ash (Cahokia)
Nick Steinbrook (Lindberg)

130

Scott O’Donnell (Oak Park)
Darrin Green (Oakville)
John Vanvelkingburgh (Howell North)
Brian Sanchez (Roxana)
Jeremy Cornell (Mount Zion)

135

Dylan Joiner (Oak Park)
Maxx Waterkotte (Northwest)
Matt Beasley (Edwardsville)
Tyler Carney (Granite City)

140

Zach Bailey (Oak Park)
Brett Buettner (Lindbergh)
Aaron Winnings (Belleville Althoff)
Troy Howell (Granite City)
Tristan Booker (Mount Zion)

145

Shane Nay (Oak Park)
Bryson Jackstadt (Edwardsville)
Austin Waggoner (Granite City)
Tyler Babcock (Civic Memorial)
Tom Sternau (Belleville Althoff)

152

Ray Hall (Oak Park)
Nick Uzzetta (Northwest)
Adam Beardon (Lindbergh)
Trey Traylor (Belleville East)
Stephen Hagopian (Edwardsville)

160

Matt Koelling (Oak Park)
Rico Williams (Hazelwood Central)
Kyle Foley (Oakville)
Martavius Hines (Cahokia)
Josh Byrum (Granite City)

171

Brent Haynes (Oak Park)
Donald Woods (McCluer North)
Tim Barnett (Roxana)
Mike Raney (Belleville Althoff)
John Schlotter (Triad)

189

Ron Porter (Northwest)
Scott Penny (Granite City)
Chris Flaugher (Edwardsville)
Zach Johnson (Triad)
Terry Cotton (Belleville West)

215

Kolton Kono (Oak Park)
Brandon Herrington (Triad)
Andrew Sanchez (O’Fallon)
Zach Palme (Edwardsville)
Rich Barnett (Granite City)

275

James Sills (Howell North)
Eric Bradshaw (Oak Park)
Ian Darr (Civic Memorial)
Sean Bahmani (Edwardsville)
Chris Heatherly (Cahokia)

Also, I think these will be the top 5 teams and they are in no particular order; however, I don't think anyone is going to challenge Oak Park

Oak park (MO)
Northwest (Holt Springs MO)
Granite City
Edwardsville
Triad

[Southern_Hospitality]

Could someone let me know if I am missing anyone from the Missouri side of the river? Thanks!

[oxman]

My GUESS is that those 5 teams will finish in the following order:
Oak Park
Edwardsville
Granite City
Northwest
Triad
8)

[Rick Williams]

I thought I read that Edwardsville and FZW should be close dual...which leads me to believe they must be pretty good for someone to think that considering how tough FZW is...should they then not be in the hunt against OP at the GC Holiday???

[Southern_Hospitality]

Hey Rick, I said that statement because I believe Fort Zumwalt is a better tourney team then dual team.

[Rick Williams]

Cool...I was just hoping they were real tough...I love the tough competition...something to look forward to in a couple of weeks...themat.com has a poll on their site about the beast of the east and I so badly would love to see both OP and FZW in that tournament...Man that would be something to see

[Southern_Hospitality]

Let me clearify, I think Oak Park is going win it by 60-70 points or so. Remember, they won the tournament last year by 80 points or so.

[JBolin]

Darren Green wrestled 125 and finished 3rd at Lee Summit

[Louden]

In no particular order, here are the top contenders for each weight for the Granite City Holiday Tournament. Let me know if I left out any of the top 5 contenders?


You are forgetting a few...

119: Herb Krischke

If you are going to include Brooks then you have to include Herb as Herb lost to Brooks (The eventual Champion) in OT 7-5 at Cape, and eventually took 3rd out of 20 teams.

125: Vito Ingarigiola

How could you forget ol' Vito? He's a returning SQ, 15-1 on the year, and won the 20 Team Tiger Classic.

130: Matt Chandler

While he isn't likely to win this yet, the sophmore is getting better by the second just like his older brother did, plus with his funky style he could always pull out a big upset.

140: Todd Porter

Todd is only a sophmore and hasn't even been tested this year. I am sure he will meet his first real tests at this tourney but his name should at least be mentioned as he is 14-0 this year and walked through the 20 Team Tiger Classic.

[robo]

Northwest is a fine looking program this year, but at GC they may get a shock. Stalling in Illinois is not what it is in Missouri. Kids in Ill. ride harder and escape better because they will not have an official force the rider off, so they develop their skills better. The primary difference or shock may come from the difference in toughness. The G.C. kids are usually just a tougher set of kids. They live in the middle of the steel mills and factories. You just don't complain about pain in that world. You take pain and you give pain at a much higher level than most Missouri kids deal with regularly. The northern area Illinois kids, closer to Chicago, also wrestle at a tougher level on a regular basis. The Mt. Zion kids come from Decatur (mid state) but they also seem to demonstrate the Chicago style of toughness.

The format is also a bit different and can be brutal. G.C. supposedly uses a blind draw. It is possible that two or three of the toughest kids at a weight class will be in the same four man bracket and only the top two go forward. Many times over the years the #1 and #2 seed have faced each other on day one in a first or second round match. If both make it through the first day they will make it to the second phase where it all starts over new with the exception that if they met on day one they probably will be divided so that they will not meet again until they both meet in the final on day two. Day two is a fresh start. You could loose on day one and on day two it is an 8-man bracket for a fresh start.

Edwardsville whooped G.C. this year, so it would seem that the team to beat will be first OP, but then Edwardsville. In that deep pit of G.C. the upper deck G.C. cheering fans usually seem to bring out the best of the G.C. wrestlers. So they will be in the hunt as well.

In summary, though Northwest looks like a very good program this year, look for them to fight to stay in the top half of the 16 team tourney. I would be surprised to see them finish in the top 4, but if they do make it there, it will prove they are a contender for top five at Missouri State.


Does anyone know if Mohammet Seymoer is still in the tourney?

[gbmem]

what time does the varsity wrestling start on thursday and friday are they going to do fresh and jv first, most people have to work. will they be wrestling during the day

[Southern_Hospitality]

I personally feel that Granites stack the opposite side of the bracket as their kid is in so they have a better chance to advance to the second day. That is maybe the only reason Granite might get second and Edwardsville third.

[Louden]

Robo, if Northwest places in the Top 4 then I want Northwest to become your new home team to root for, and I want to see you at all of the duals and local tourney's! 8)

[whitts]

Believe me, if Granite stacked the brackets, they sure wouldn't have gotten the draws they have had the past couple years. That tournament is a blind draw tour. There is a formula that is used and has been used since Schmidty was there. Some times it sucks for your team and some times it doesn't. If the big powerfull Edwardsville was as strong as some of you think. The draw shouldn't matter. You know, Oak Park has been coming down for the past 5 or 6 years and not once has coach Mayabb or his parents complained about the brackets.

[robo]

I personally feel that Granites stack the opposite side of the bracket as their kid is in so they have a better chance to advance to the second day. That is maybe the only reason Granite might get second and Edwardsville third.

I have always felt the same way, but I have seen some of the G.C. tougher kids in some tough first day brackets. I guess I think they protect the marginal G.C. guys better. Regardless though, by tourney end the top guys will face each other. If they don't face each other on day one, they will on day two when the phase two brackets are drafted to separate the guys that saw each other during phase one.

What is most exciting to see is what the Missouri kids will do against guys they have not wrestled in the past or been able to scout. A lot of seasoned wrestlers are best when they have faced a guy before because they seem to have better adjustment skills. When you have no idea what to expect you get a truer look at the talent of a wrestler. Though the southern Illinois wrestlers are not near as tough as the northern Illinois wrestlers, one of the things that prepare the Illinois wrestlers better is that there is just many more wrestlers in Illinois. The Missouri wrestlers seem to have faced each other many times dating back to the kids leagues. The Illinois kids by contrast are far less likely to have faced each other as often. I think having seen another wrestler often is a draw back. You have to have all your wits and skills about you when you have no idea what to expect in an opponent.

[robo]

Robo, if Northwest places in the Top 4 then I want Northwest to become your new home team to root for, and I want to see you at all of the duals and local tourney's! 8)

Rob Bojenski-Robo to you has no team. That is how he remains objective. Robo does like little boys. That is a good looking team right now. G.C. is just a tough tourney that offers the unprepared quite a challenge. Illinois may only have three or four really good teams at G.C., they will have many tough kids from Roxana, Triad, Cahokia, Civic Memorial, Althof, Belleville East and West, etc..., that can go with anyone. If the Northwest kid is not mentally prepared for the unknown and possible tough match from round one, two, and three, all the way to the place matches, they will come in for a surprise.

I think Northwest will do well, but it will be a good test. I look for them to finish anywhere from 4th to 8th. Maybe the greater test will be to see if they get even one champion, or even one finalist. Illinois will also have some tougher big kids generally than Northwest is accustomed to seeing on a regular basis.

[Louden]

I think those tougher kids are more likely to be coming from Oak Park than the Illinois teams. I am sure the Illinois teams will have plenty of tough ones too but I think Oak Park is coming in with the most top level guys...

Uehlin and Krischke should be fun!

[Warner]

Definitely don't under estimate Oak Park. They are a very solid team. After watching them beat up on the #1's from 5A and 4A teams from Oklahoma, I don't think they have any holes. They pretty much handled Lee's Summit tournament. I have heard that they are inheriting a tough heavy weight as well. Not that the young man there can't already handle the job. My money is on Oak Park to win the GC tournament.

[robo]

I think those tougher kids are more likely to be coming from Oak Park than the Illinois teams. I am sure the Illinois teams will have plenty of tough ones too but I think Oak Park is coming in with the most top level guys...

Uehlin and Krischke should be fun!

If Northwest goes in with that attitude they will get surprised for sure. No doubt OP is tough up and down the lineup and is the most likely champ, but teams like Roxana, Cahokia, Althoff, etc..., each may have one or two kids that at any given weight can wrestle with any of the Northwest kids. Since they won't be seeded, it is not like you have any forewarning. You might draw the best wrestler in your first, second, or third round. Northwest may also see styles that they are not use to seeing anywhere else that will catch them off guard. Over the years I have seen some great Granby wrestlers, two on one arm wrestlers, front head lock series wrestlers, and many variations of styles that maybe no other team in Missouri is using. Also remember that the G.C. coach is a judo and Greco-Roman coach. He teaches throws that most Missouri kids don't use. OP uses the front headlock series quite a bit so Missouri is now use to that.

It will be exciting to see what Northwest does. The year that Oakville had six in the finals at state with three state champs, I think they had two champions at G.C. Compare the three and four time tourney champions from the tough GAC. I think there have been many. I think there may have been one four time tourney champ at G.C. and the tourney is over 60 years old I believe.

[robo]

Definitely don't under estimate Oak Park. They are a very solid team. After watching them beat up on the #1's from 5A and 4A teams from Oklahoma, I don't think they have any holes. They pretty much handled Lee's Summit tournament. I have heard that they are inheriting a tough heavy weight as well. Not that the young man there can't already handle the job. My money is on Oak Park to win the GC tournament.

I have never read anyone question OP winning the G.C. Tourney. I think that is a forgone conclusion. The battle is for 2nd through 8th. There is no team there that can match OP this year. The test for OP would have been at Oakville where Illinois Mt. Carmel is at. Mt. Carmel might be able to beat OP. Mt. Carmel last year beat Matre Die (sp?) easily. MD, from Indiana, has only lost five or six duals in 12 years, two of those last year at the Oakville Duals. Three of the top teams in the single class state of Indiana are at Oakville this year. Indiana has something like 350 wrestling schools in one class and MD has won that state dual championship all but once in ten years. The team that beat MD is at Oakville as well, plus Warren, another one of the top four teams in Indiana.

Granite City has more dual wins than any team in the United States with more than 1100, and maybe 1200 dual wins. G.C. went to Oakville one year and pulled out the next. I think G.C. may have taken two or three dual losses that year at Oakville. This is not Oakville so O.P. should win G.C. by a huge margin.

[cementMixer]

OP sure works that headlock series. MJ, when was the last time you saw OP wrestle? :lol:

[robo]

OP sure works that headlock series. MJ, when was the last time you saw OP wrestle? :lol:

Are you saying OP no longer teaches the front head lock, or that those guys that learned it in the past have forgoten it? It may not be the bread and butter of OP any longer, but five years ago no one knew how to deal with it at all and the point was that at Illiniois Northwest will come up against styles they may not be use to and that is often troubling to a wrestler.

I like your style mixer!

[Louden]

If Northwest goes in with that attitude they will get surprised for sure.

That's not Northwests attitude, that's mine. 8)

No doubt OP is tough up and down the lineup and is the most likely champ, but teams like Roxana, Cahokia, Althoff, etc..., each may have one or two kids that at any given weight can wrestle with any of the Northwest kids. Since they won't be seeded, it is not like you have any forewarning. You might draw the best wrestler in your first, second, or third round.

Sounds like fun!!

Northwest may also see styles that they are not use to seeing anywhere else that will catch them off guard. Over the years I have seen some great Granby wrestlers, two on one arm wrestlers, front head lock series wrestlers, and many variations of styles that maybe no other team in Missouri is using.

Considering that many Northwest wrestlers have been competeing at the National level over the summer (Krischke's, Porter's, Chandler, Waterkotte) I doubt there will be too many things that will totally catch them off guard and blow them away... I'm sure that this will be as tough as a tourney as Northwest will see, and there very easily could be some big bumps and upsets for the team, this is just a seasonal tourney and I'd be happier to see these hurdles here rather than State. It should be a lot of fun and should be very interesting!

[robo]

If Northwest goes in with that attitude they will get surprised for sure.

That's not Northwests attitude, that's mine. 8)

No doubt OP is tough up and down the lineup and is the most likely champ, but teams like Roxana, Cahokia, Althoff, etc..., each may have one or two kids that at any given weight can wrestle with any of the Northwest kids. Since they won't be seeded, it is not like you have any forewarning. You might draw the best wrestler in your first, second, or third round.

Sounds like fun!!

Northwest may also see styles that they are not use to seeing anywhere else that will catch them off guard. Over the years I have seen some great Granby wrestlers, two on one arm wrestlers, front head lock series wrestlers, and many variations of styles that maybe no other team in Missouri is using.

Considering that many Northwest wrestlers have been competeing at the National level over the summer (Krischke's, Porter's, Chandler, Waterkotte) I doubt there will be too many things that will totally catch them off guard and blow them away... I'm sure that this will be as tough as a tourney as Northwest will see, and there very easily could be some big bumps and upsets for the team, this is just a seasonal tourney and I'd be happier to see these hurdles here rather than State. It should be a lot of fun and should be very interesting!

So Bader, looks like you have it all figured out. What place will Northwest take at G.C.?

[Louden]

So master Bader, looks like you have it all figured out. What place will Northwest take at G.C.?

I'm French so I prefer to be called Master De'Bader, and if I told you who places where then there would be no fun in going! 8)

[robo]

So master Bader, looks like you have it all figured out. What place will Northwest take at G.C.?

I'm French so I prefer to be called Master De'Bader, and if I told you who places where then there would be no fun in going! 8)

Well, I don't know french from a wet puppy tongue, but I'll give it a shot. Ue ue, or is that Wee wee De'Master Bader ....

How about an over and under guess on the Northwest finish? Now give it a serious guesstamant, you were bold in everything else you knew!

[Louden]

I don't know how things get seeded with GC and the rumors of their "set ups" with random draws, but I think Northwest would have an edge on Granite City but are not as good as Oak Park. I don't know anything about Edwardsville but apparantly they are nails. I think that Northwest, depending on how the draws fall, should end up anywhere from 2nd to 5th. If things go really bad it could go a little worse but that would have to be some big time upsets.

[fudge tunnel]

. I have heard that they are inheriting a tough heavy weight as well

Wow! Really? Do you have any background on him?

[robo]

I don't know how things get seeded with GC and the rumors of their "set ups" with random draws, but I think Northwest would have an edge on Granite City but are not as good as Oak Park. I don't know anything about Edwardsville but apparantly they are nails. I think that Northwest, depending on how the draws fall, should end up anywhere from 2nd to 5th. If things go really bad it could go a little worse but that would have to be some big time upsets.

2nd through 5th is pretty bold on the high end! Didn't I read that G.C. won the Helias or J.C. Duals this year? Edwardsville beat G.C. this year like Northwest beat Fox, by 30 points. It won't be O.P. that beats Northwest out of the top 4. It takes two losses at either the first or second round to get eliminated so no one loss will do it. It is those no name guys from those schools you never hear much about that can give you that second loss that knocks you out of the points.

[Louden]

Wow! Really? Do you have any background on him?

Isn't that a little wierd? I mean... my background has a picture of Tyra Banks... you're looking for a dude in a wrestling singlet.... :shock:

[Louden]

2nd through 5th is pretty bold on the high end!

We won't know that until it's over.



Didn't I read that G.C. won the Helias or J.C. Duals this year?

I think Northwest could have won that tournament.


Edwardsville beat G.C. this year like Northwest beat Fox, by 30 points.

I didn't see a score but I heard that it was big. What that tells me is that Edwardsville is a pretty solid team up and down the line up and that Granite City isn't as good this year as it has been in the past.


It won't be O.P. that beats Northwest out of the top 4. It takes two losses at either the first or second round to get eliminated so no one loss will do it. It is those no name guys from those schools you never hear much about that can give you that second loss that knocks you out of the points.

It could happen that way, but I like optimism! :-D

[obnoxio]

I'm gonna have to agree with robo... There are a lot of kids from illnoise we don't know much about that can cause heep-big trouble.

[robo]

2nd through 5th is pretty bold on the high end!

We won't know that until it's over.



Didn't I read that G.C. won the Helias or J.C. Duals this year?

I think Northwest could have won that tournament.


Edwardsville beat G.C. this year like Northwest beat Fox, by 30 points.

I didn't see a score but I heard that it was big. What that tells me is that Edwardsville is a pretty solid team up and down the line up and that Granite City isn't as good this year as it has been in the past.


It won't be O.P. that beats Northwest out of the top 4. It takes two losses at either the first or second round to get eliminated so no one loss will do it. It is those no name guys from those schools you never hear much about that can give you that second loss that knocks you out of the points.

It could happen that way, but I like optimism! :-D

Well when in the French quarter of Granite City they say Wee wee De'Master Bader. See you at Eddy's Lounge at 2900 Nameoki during breaks. They have great burgers and other such steel mill food and drink. They don't speak French though.

[robo]

I'm gonna have to agree with robo... There are a lot of kids from illnoise we don't know much about that can cause heep-big trouble.

Oby, you gonna make a show at Eddy's Lounge during the G.C. Tourney? I'm the Polish looking guy with the knit hat and beer bottle caps hooked all over it.

[Louden]

Oby, you gonna make a show at Eddy's Lounge during the G.C. Tourney? I'm the Polish looking guy with the knit hat and beer bottle caps hooked all over it.

A Polish guy walked into a restroom and saw a sign above the toilet that read:

NOTICE:

DO NOT PUT
ANYTHING IN
THE TOILET
OTHER THAN
TOILET PAPER

So he shat on the floor.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Greg]

Darth Vito should get some great matches at Granite City with Uehlin (Oak Park) and Lunn (Edwardsville) there.

[TDC]

[quote="robo"] The primary difference or shock may come from the difference in toughness. The G.C. kids are usually just a tougher set of kids. They live in the middle of the steel mills and factories. You just don't complain about pain in that world. You take pain and you give pain at a much higher level than most Missouri kids deal with regularly. The northern area Illinois kids, closer to Chicago, also wrestle at a tougher level on a regular basis. The Mt. Zion kids come from Decatur (mid state) but they also seem to demonstrate the Chicago style of toughness.


Sure! Everyone knows you can now rank and judge wrestlers by where they live, how hard their Fathers work and such. This new philosophy of yours will save the rankers countless hours. You are probably right, the rich, over privelaged kids from House Springs, High Ridge, Cedar Hill and especially Grubville, just can't imagine how these people on the other side of the river live. I hope their limo drivers can find GC. By the way, I hope they are serving Caviar at the concession stands since most of us raised in Jeff. County won't eat hot dogs or nachos. Give me a break!!

Oh, and if wrestling someone you don't know much about is a dis-advantage, at least it works both ways, so that's a wash.

[robo]

The primary difference or shock may come from the difference in toughness. The G.C. kids are usually just a tougher set of kids. They live in the middle of the steel mills and factories. You just don't complain about pain in that world. You take pain and you give pain at a much higher level than most Missouri kids deal with regularly. The northern area Illinois kids, closer to Chicago, also wrestle at a tougher level on a regular basis. The Mt. Zion kids come from Decatur (mid state) but they also seem to demonstrate the Chicago style of toughness.


Sure! Everyone knows you can now rank and judge wrestlers by where they live, how hard their Fathers work and such. This new philosophy of yours will save the rankers countless hours. You are probably right, the rich, over privelaged kids from House Springs, High Ridge, Cedar Hill and especially Grubville, just can't imagine how these people on the other side of the river live. I hope their limo drivers can find GC. By the way, I hope they are serving Caviar at the concession stands since most of us raised in Jeff. County won't eat hot dogs or nachos. Give me a break!!

Oh, and if wrestling someone you don't know much about is a dis-advantage, at least it works both ways, so that's a wash.

Looks like you are insecure about something. You need to take these issue up with your Psychiatrist or minister. This reminds me of that scene in Good Morning Vietnam where Brig. Gen. Taylor walks out from hiding after hearing the Robin Williams-- Adrian Cronauer character say, “There has never been a w---- man more in need of a b--- j--…..

You need to talk with a psych, a minister, or get a …. … you know!

[TDC]

It's just funny to me that someone would say that one group is better than the other for the reasons you did. They may be, they may not, but it has nothing to do with their locality. Let me ask you this, are jewish wrestlers better than catholic wrestlers? Are hispanic wrestlers better than non-hispanic wrestlers? I just didn't like the generalization you used. No insecurities here, I grew up out there but now I'm about a par five from Priory, which is who I think you were confusing NW with. As far as the B--- j---, I think we could all use more. :lol:

[Southern_Hospitality]

As a team, Mount Zion is down this year; however, they still have a couple outstanding individuals that will place.

[robo]

It's just funny to me that someone would say that one group is better than the other for the reasons you did. They may be, they may not, but it has nothing to do with their locality. Let me ask you this, are jewish wrestlers better than catholic wrestlers? Are hispanic wrestlers better than non-hispanic wrestlers? I just didn't like the generalization you used. No insecurities here, I grew up out there but now I'm about a par five from Priory, which is who I think you were confusing NW with. As far as the B--- j---, I think we could all use more. :lol:

With all the mouthing your doing I feel like you're giving me one.

Chill out babe, its Christmas and this is just high school wrestling.

[Southern_Hospitality]

Also, Granite is good teams because their coaching staff are very hard workers and the they most dedicated coaches I have ever seen. Also, they have two outstanding middle school programs and two excellent kids club, which serves as a feeder program for their high school team. They are not good because of their steel mills mentality. Year in and year out, they welcome tough compition by having the toughest schedule in southern Illinois and in return they get better by facing top notch compitition.

[TDC]

That's more like it.

[whitts]

Not putting down Mt. Carmel, but I think Oak Park would beat them pretty handily. They are a tough team, but there are about 4 or 5 in Illinois quite a bit tougher. This past Saturday St. Rita beat them by about 18, and chicago Marist beat them by 12. Also, the year that Granite was in the Oakville they lost one meet and that was to Mater Dei.

[ivan robison]

Whitts they lost to Farmington also that year.

[Southern_Hospitality]

Mt. Carmel is a far better tourney team than a dual team.

[whitts]

Hey Ivan the year your talking about, Granite City was 30-3. There looses were to Mater Dei, Ray Pec at Jeff City duals and to Glenbard North at the state tournament.

[ivan robison]

Your right Whitts had to go back and make sure.

[whitts]

I know at the time the main reason for Granite dropping out of that tournament was they saw many of the same teams either at their own Holiday tournament, in dual meets or at the Jeff City dual Tour. They travel now to Springfield in place of that for a little different exposure.

[rider]

I saw Mt. Caramel demolish Mater Dei last year at the Oakville duals last year.

[Louden]

Here is Edwardsville against a weakend Fort Zum. West last night. West was without Warner, Wiest, Joey Wolfrum, and without Gagliano, and they still nearly pulled out the dual. If West had even one of those 4 guys in their line-up last night IMO they would have won. If they were all in the line-up then FZW could have won by a decent margin.

103 - T. Bolin (ZW) TFall 19-4 Schwer (Edw)
112 - Lunn (Edw) def 6-4 Houdashelt (ZW)
119 - Benenati (ZW) def 8-5 Ciccarelli (Edw)
125 - Mestemacher (Edw) def 13-5 Shear (ZW)
130 - M. Bolin (ZW) def 13-1 Ryan Bartlett (Edw)
135 - Allsup wb FF
140 - McCravey (ZW) def 7-6 Beasley (Edw)
145 - Jackstadt (Edw) wbf 3:45 Zeman (ZW)
152 - Ju. Wolfrum (ZW) wbf :25 Hagopian (Edw)
160 - Nill (ZW) def 7-4 Bussmann (Edw)
171 - Morrissey (ZW) def 5-3 Ben Treat (Edw)
189 - Flaugher (Edw) def 13-4 Mattli (ZW)
215 - Palme (Edw) def 4-3 Walker (ZW)
275 - Bahmani (Edw) wbf 3:32 Nick Clark (ZW)

Robo, this is a big encouragement for Northwest IMO for the Granite City Tourney. IMO based on these results Northwest is slightly a better team than Edwardsville. So if NHS is slightly better than Edwardsville then NHS is probably ahead of Granite City themselves by a decent margin.

Just how I see it and I could be wrong.

[robo]

Here is Edwardsville against a weakend Fort Zum. West last night. West was without Warner, Wiest, Joey Wolfrum, and without Gagliano, and they still nearly pulled out the dual. If West had even one of those 4 guys in their line-up last night IMO they would have won. If they were all in the line-up then FZW could have won by a decent margin.

103 - T. Bolin (ZW) TFall 19-4 Schwer (Edw)
112 - Lunn (Edw) def 6-4 Houdashelt (ZW)
119 - Benenati (ZW) def 8-5 Ciccarelli (Edw)
125 - Mestemacher (Edw) def 13-5 Shear (ZW)
130 - M. Bolin (ZW) def 13-1 Ryan Bartlett (Edw)
135 - Allsup wb FF
140 - McCravey (ZW) def 7-6 Beasley (Edw)
145 - Jackstadt (Edw) wbf 3:45 Zeman (ZW)
152 - Ju. Wolfrum (ZW) wbf :25 Hagopian (Edw)
160 - Nill (ZW) def 7-4 Bussmann (Edw)
171 - Morrissey (ZW) def 5-3 Ben Treat (Edw)
189 - Flaugher (Edw) def 13-4 Mattli (ZW)
215 - Palme (Edw) def 4-3 Walker (ZW)
275 - Bahmani (Edw) wbf 3:32 Nick Clark (ZW)

Robo, this is a big encouragement for Northwest IMO for the Granite City Tourney. IMO based on these results Northwest is slightly a better team than Edwardsville. So if NHS is slightly better than Edwardsville then NHS is probably ahead of Granite City themselves by a decent margin.

Just how I see it and I could be wrong.

I read the post-dispatch article; you have to hand it to FZW not making excuses like those whining Edwardsville guys. Edwardsville whined about having just come off a tough dual with G.C. the Conference Championship, and Defending their Mascoutah title. You never hear anyone make excuses for FZW, they are real.

Regarding NWHS @ G.C. we have your informed 2nd trough 5th place finish projection. By your reasoning NWHS is better than Edwardsville so you might want to show your courage and lock in a more specific projection. Would you like to revise your pick to 2nd or 3rd? You don’t want to show a lack of support or confidence with that 4th and 5th place fall back position do you? Go for what you really believe! Stand strong and bold! Are you willing to now declare that NWHS will take 2nd or at worst 3rd at G.C.?

[Louden]

I'm not afraid of being wrong. I know the boys are tough, the only reason I haven't got down to the specifics is because I don't know the specifics. I don't know the draws, the pools, and even though i went to watch the GC Tourney 2 years ago I still am not familiar with how it works.

Based upon how I feel abou tthe Northwest Team and what I know about the others, I think a second place finish is not out of the question at all, and IMO it really depends on some Northwest X Factors like Ron Porter. Which Porter will show up? The Porter that wrestled at Districts and State last year or the Porter that lost to Matt Brewer? If Porter is on, and the seeding isn't completely against NHS, I think a 2nd or 3rd place finish to be very likely. Hell, if you want me to make that prediction, I will. Northwest will place 2nd or 3rd.

[gacfanski]

[quote="robo
I read the post-dispatch article; you have to hand it to FZW not making excuses like those whining Edwardsville guys. Edwardsville whined about having just come off a tough dual with G.C. the Conference Championship, and Defending their Mascoutah title. You never hear anyone make excuses for FZW, they are real.

[/quote]

The FZW excuses can be found on the "Edwardsville vs Fort Zumwalt West" thread.

[wrestlefan19]

[quote="robo
I read the post-dispatch article; you have to hand it to FZW not making excuses like those whining Edwardsville guys. Edwardsville whined about having just come off a tough dual with G.C. the Conference Championship, and Defending their Mascoutah title. You never hear anyone make excuses for FZW, they are real.



The FZW excuses can be found on the "Edwardsville vs Fort Zumwalt West" thread.[/quote]

except that is darth and other ppl(including myself) who are NOT affiliated with FZW making excuses for them...
next time try to pay attention

[robo]

[quote="robo
I read the post-dispatch article; you have to hand it to FZW not making excuses like those whining Edwardsville guys. Edwardsville whined about having just come off a tough dual with G.C. the Conference Championship, and Defending their Mascoutah title. You never hear anyone make excuses for FZW, they are real.



The FZW excuses can be found on the "Edwardsville vs Fort Zumwalt West" thread.[/quote]

Those were not whining excuses, those were facts. Them Illinois guys always talking about what woulda, coulda, shoulda happened makes me sick. You need to recognize the difference between Missouri facts and Illinois excuses if you wanna hang with this crowd.

[Louden]

Those were not whining excuses, those were facts. Them Illinois guys always talking about what woulda, coulda, shoulda happened makes me sick. You need to recognize the difference between Missouri facts and Illinois excuses if you wanna hang with this crowd.

I agree. Edwardsville was complaining that they have had a long week and that their boys looked "tired". I don't think Edwardsville was competing at any tournaments near as tough as Lee's Summit, so they didn't have any rougher of a week than FZW did, so their excuse is clearly and excuse.

FZW however IS without 4 top ranked kids in their lineup. That's a lot of points...

[robo]

I'm not afraid of being wrong. I know the boys are tough, the only reason I haven't got down to the specifics is because I don't know the specifics. I don't know the draws, the pools, and even though i went to watch the GC Tourney 2 years ago I still am not familiar with how it works.

Based upon how I feel abou tthe Northwest Team and what I know about the others, I think a second place finish is not out of the question at all, and IMO it really depends on some Northwest X Factors like Ron Porter. Which Porter will show up? The Porter that wrestled at Districts and State last year or the Porter that lost to Matt Brewer? If Porter is on, and the seeding isn't completely against NHS, I think a 2nd or 3rd place finish to be very likely. Hell, if you want me to make that prediction, I will. Northwest will place 2nd or 3rd.

Well 2nd or 3rd it is! Bravo for your courage and support for your team. May NWHS live up to the highest of your expectations and take 2nd. I plan on seeing you at Eddies Tavern/Lounge at 2900 Nameoki to toast your keen predictive skills during the break in the action on day two. By then it should be pretty apparent if you are right or not. By then it will be either shouts of joyous victory or the mealy whining and excuses of what coulda, woulda, shoulda happened if so and so had done such and such the way did sometime in the past, somewhere. I am quite certain we will get the joyous shouts of victory instead.

You'll recognize me by the knit hat of woven beer can tins you see sitting at the bar. They call me Rodney but don't be confused, I am Mickey Joe Stern or robo to you. By your shouts of joy or whining I will recognize you.

[robo]

Those were not whining excuses, those were facts. Them Illinois guys always talking about what woulda, coulda, shoulda happened makes me sick. You need to recognize the difference between Missouri facts and Illinois excuses if you wanna hang with this crowd.

I agree. Edwardsville was complaining that they have had a long week and that their boys looked "tired". I don't think Edwardsville was competing at any tournaments near as tough as Lee's Summit, so they didn't have any rougher of a week than FZW did, so their excuse is clearly and excuse.

FZW however IS without 4 top ranked kids in their lineup. That's a lot of points...

Absolutely, that is the facts, no excuses there! By the way, who were those four guys? and I take it those whiners from Illinois won all those weight brackets?

[Southern_Hospitality]

Darth, I am from Illinois and I believe Fort Zumwalt had a much tougher week last week so there shouldn't be any excuses from Edwardsville

[robo]

Darth, I am from Illinois and I believe Fort Zumwalt had a much tougher week last week so there shouldn't be any excuses from Edwardsville

You may be a whiner from Illinois but you speak with the heart of a no excuses Missourian.

[Louden]

FZW moved their line-up around to try and compensate for the loss, such as having Benanati wrestle up at 19 to replace Warner, where he did win, but then the 112 spot he vacated was lost to the Edwardsville guy. Wiest was gone at 140 or 45, Gags has been out all year but is reported to come back, and that is another state champion for FZW right there, and then Joey Wolfrum at 130.

[robo]

FZW moved their line-up around to try and compensate for the loss, such as having Benanati wrestle up at 19 to replace Warner, where he did win, but then the 112 spot he vacated was lost to the Edwardsville guy. Wiest was gone at 140 or 45, Gags has been out all year but is reported to come back, and that is another state champion for FZW right there, and then Joey Wolfrum at 130.

Spoken like a no excuses Missourian! Those whiners from Illinois should take notes!

[gacfanski]

apparently, there are a lot of grey areas between facts and excuses.

[robo]

apparently, there are a lot of grey areas between facts and excuses.

No Grey Areas! If you from Illinois you make excuses, if you from Missouri you speak facts! That's just the way god made em.

[gacfanski]

If that's the case, I think we'll need a playbook after GC is over.

[wrestlefan19]

apparently, there are a lot of grey areas between facts and excuses.
your right gacfan Edwardsville was just clearly the better team!
Real lineups dont matter whatsoever 2 returning state medalists would have made no difference!
whew its a good thing you are so smart or this site would REALLY be in bad shape!

[robo]

If that's the case, I think we'll need a playbook after GC is over.

Stay tuned.... de'Master Bader will fill in all of the gaps from what you missed! It is better the 2nd time around anyway. Remember this....Don't trust your lying eyes!

[robo]

apparently, there are a lot of grey areas between facts and excuses.
your right gacfan Edwardsville was just clearly the better team!
Real lineups dont matter whatsoever 2 returning state medalists would have made no difference!
whew its a good thing you are so smart or this site would REALLY be in bad shape!


Yeahhhh take that! The Real Line Ups! You have to look at the Real Line Ups. Take those and shove'em down your whining Illinois woulda, coulda, shoulda lame excuse throat.

[Southern_Hospitality]

Darth, I wouldn't start saying Northwest is a shoe in to finish 2nd at the Granite tournament because I pretty sure the lineup Edwardsville use yesterday will not be the same for the Granite tournament. However, I never said that Edwardsville was for sure going to finish second either.

[gacfanski]

I'm not sure why the meet was even wrestled since the outcome would have been already decided by the rankings anyway. Yes, Edwardsville was the best team THAT NIGHT. I don't care who was out of the lineup and who was in. The winner was decided by the wrestlers on the mat that night. I suppose we can speculate the entire season for every team and stop wasting everybody's time with these insignificant matches. I hope Edwardsville now realizes that they never had a chance to win the meet, even if they did win.

[wrestlefan19]

I'm not sure why the meet was even wrestled since the outcome would have been already decided by the rankings anyway. Yes, Edwardsville was the best team THAT NIGHT. I don't care who was out of the lineup and who was in. The winner was decided by the wrestlers on the mat that night. I suppose we can speculate the entire season for every team and stop wasting everybody's time with these insignificant matches. I hope Edwardsville now realizes that they never had a chance to win the meet, even if they did win.

....maybe im confused who exactly said that edwardsville didnt win the dual?
If I remember correctly what was said was that FZW is the better team when they have their whole lineup you cant possibly say that one of the most dominant wrestlers in the state wouldnt have made a difference and add to that a 2 time finalist and a very tough wrestler and you have a BIG difference

[robo]

I'm not sure why the meet was even wrestled since the outcome would have been already decided by the rankings anyway. Yes, Edwardsville was the best team THAT NIGHT. I don't care who was out of the lineup and who was in. The winner was decided by the wrestlers on the mat that night. I suppose we can speculate the entire season for every team and stop wasting everybody's time with these insignificant matches. I hope Edwardsville now realizes that they never had a chance to win the meet, even if they did win.

The Real Winner is determined by the Real Line Up. What is so difficult to understand about that? Just like the Real finishes at the G.C. Tournament next week will be determined by the Real Line ups. I just hate having to wait until the day after to find out what those really were.

[robo]

You shoulda seen the guys that weren't in the line up at Edwardsville; they woulda made a big difference and coulda made for a much different outcome. That is the Real Truth that we should Really be talking about!

[RP-in-Nebraska]

Dead........................................Horse. ...................................

[robo]

naaayyyyy.....somebody whip that horse there is still some life in it....

[robo]

Dead........................................Horse. ...................................

While we are on dead horses, will Tony get to coach the National team next year since he really had the best team in the NL last year?

[gacfanski]

That reminds me, I never did receive the Cardinals World Series pennant I ordered. Cause they would have won it if Scott Rolen had been in there. Surely, those playoffs and WS were just a farce, weren't they? I mean, their real lineup didn't play.

[Louden]

Darth, I wouldn't start saying Northwest is a shoe in to finish 2nd at the Granite tournament because I pretty sure the lineup Edwardsville use yesterday will not be the same for the Granite tournament. However, I never said that Edwardsville was for sure going to finish second either.

I never said that Northwest is taking second. Mr. Bojenski asked for my honest prediction and I said between 2nd to 5th. He wanted me to narrow it down so I then said 2nd or 3rd. It's just my guess.

[Louden]

That reminds me, I never did receive the Cardinals World Series pennant I ordered. Cause they would have won it if Scott Rolen had been in there. Surely, those playoffs and WS were just a farce, weren't they? I mean, their real lineup didn't play.

I think this has gotton out of hand. Edwardsville won the dual, and they won it fair and square. FZW made no excuses even though they could have since they were missing 4 top ranked kids in the state. They chose to remain silent about that.

Edwardsville on the other hand was making excuses with their victory, in what I assumed was *hinting* that they could have done better but their kids looked tired. After all they had a tough dual and a tough tournament this past week. They didn't seem to care if FZW had wrestled in a far stronger tournament and took some injuries/illnesses from that, FZW still didn't even mention anything other than saying that Edwardsville is a good team and that it was their day.

The point only was that FZW didn't make up excuses, Edwardsville did. Anyone on here talking about FZW missing some of their line-up is talking about it because we mentioned that FZW didn't even bring that up-even though they have a point if they did.

[robo]

Did you mean to say, Edwardsville won the dual. Congratulations!

I always get confused about what you are trying to say with all those words….

[T.D.C.Dad]

Darth did you actually wish this on yourself. I mean the whole robo MJ thing

[Jay]

never, NEVER look a troll in the eye. :roll:
never, NEVER give him an honest answer. :shock:

doesn't matter who their name is/was yesterday, today or tomorrow a troll is a TROLL. :(

...and be careful of your passwords. :wink:

[Louden]

Darth did you actually wish this on yourself. I mean the whole robo MJ thing

Of course. There's already been more talk in this forum than normal. I like it!

[Southern_Hospitality]

Darth, this forum is way more active than the southern Illinois message board. Thanks for intelligents insights. I believe Edwardsville said they were tired because some wrestler didn't wrestle to their potentional. It was a statement to take back to the practice room and work harder. I wish both teams were at 100% so this debate could be settle. In all honesty, Edwardsville are still facing weight issue, but that is no excuse. Anyways, this thread is to talk about the Granite tournament and not the dual.

[Louden]

Where can we find the rankings for the kids that are not in Missouri for this tournament?

[Southern_Hospitality]

I posted top contenders for each weight on the Southern Illnois message board. Also, the Illinois rankings can be found at http://www.Illlinoismatmen.com.


Hope this helps.

103 - #5 Colin Allgire (Belleville West)

112 - None

119 - #12 A.J. Ciccarelli (Edwardsville)

125 - #2 Tommy Hill (Roxana)

130 - #11 Troy Howell (Granite City)

135 - #3 Aaron Winning (Belleville Althoff)

140 - None

145 - #8 Austin Waggoner (Granite City), #12 Tyler Babcock (Civic Memorial)

152 - #5 Trey Traylor (Belleville East)

160 - None

171 - None

189 - #3 Scott Penny (Granite City), #10 Mike Raney (Belleville Althoff)

215 - #10 Chris Flaugher (Edwardsville, he will go 189)

275 - #1 Ian Darr (Civic Memorial), #5 Sean Bahmani (Edwardsville

[Bob Pollock]

[Louden]

I'm pissed. I just spend 20 minuts here compliling a list of all the ranked kids in this tournament, and then accidentally hit a button that erased it all.

[RP-in-Nebraska]

How Denmom of you.

[MG_Grievous]

How Denmom of you.

My thoughts exactly.

[jhva]

ya ya ya cry me a river. How long is it going to take to do it again and post it. LOL

[robo]

I just want to know who this kid faces from Missouiri:

125 - #2 Tommy Hill (Roxana)

I think that was the kid that was so exciting last year. I think he lost to the OP wrestler in the final, but it was exciting. I could be wrong though, it might have been a kid from Cahokia I am thinking of.

Does anyone have the list of teams at G.C. this year?

[Louden]

ya ya ya cry me a river. How long is it going to take to do it again and post it. LOL

You do it woman.

[rooster]

I am sure it is on here somewhere... What days are the tourney?

[Southern_Hospitality]

I just want to know who this kid faces from Missouiri:

125 - #2 Tommy Hill (Roxana)

I think that was the kid that was so exciting last year. I think he lost to the OP wrestler in the final, but it was exciting. I could be wrong though, it might have been a kid from Cahokia I am thinking of.

Does anyone have the list of teams at G.C. this year?

No, Tommy Hill beat Jacob Nay 3-1 in the finals.

[robo]

I just want to know who this kid faces from Missouiri:

125 - #2 Tommy Hill (Roxana)

I think that was the kid that was so exciting last year. I think he lost to the OP wrestler in the final, but it was exciting. I could be wrong though, it might have been a kid from Cahokia I am thinking of.

Does anyone have the list of teams at G.C. this year?

No, Tommy Hill beat Jacob Nay 3-1 in the finals.

Well, that must have been the one. I didn't remember the details but I did remember that it was exciting and one well fought match between two very aggressive and talented wrestlers. It may have been worth the price of the ticket all by itself.

Who is at that weight bracket this year?

Come on swain, errr...de'Master Bader, give it up....what do you know about this one weight bracket? I mean 125-lb.?

[Bob Pollock]

Moved

[robo]

Bob, thanks!

I thought I read that Haz.Cnt. was not going to be there this year. Also this is the first time I saw Seckman mentioned as being at G.C. are you sure about that one?

[Bob Pollock]

[robo]

Granite City grinds them down unlike most other tourneys. That first round qualifying often has unexpected consequences and then those schools you think nothing about always seem to have one or two guys that rob you of your lunch in the second round. Unless NWHS has three or four super stars to make the finals I say 3rd or 4th possible, 5th more probable, but then they are a real good looking team and could surprise. I won't be disappointed if they take 2nd, I just wouldn't bet on it. I'll put my money on 5th and accept a push on 4th. Thanks for your info Bob. I'll be watching that 125-lb bracket with pleasure.

[Bob Pollock]

[obnoxio]

Can someone tell me if Vogel from Oakville is wrestling this year? I thought he should have been in the 140-152 range this year but I haven't seen or heard anything about him since baseball season last spring. He's a hellofa catcher..

[Louden]

We'd be able to answer that for you Obie if Oakville had anyone to actually report their results, but have a tradition of being lazy in that area.

[obnoxio]

Darth?!?!?! No one is lazy in Oakville. They have their way of doing things and just because it doesn't meet your expectations doesn't mean it's wrong.

Oakville has always operated under everyone's radar and will continue to do so. All you or I have to do is show up at a dual and all of our questions will be answered. I've been busy and haven't gotten down there myself this year but will be hanging with those guys next week and into January.

[obnoxio]

If Norfwest replaced hazelhood central at this tournament,
who did Lindyburger replace?

[Louden]

Darth?!?!?! No one is lazy in Oakville. They have their way of doing things and just because it doesn't meet your expectations doesn't mean it's wrong.

Oakville has always operated under everyone's radar and will continue to do so. All you or I have to do is show up at a dual and all of our questions will be answered. I've been busy and haven't gotten down there myself this year but will be hanging with those guys next week and into January.

I disagree Mr Obie. That may have been a strategy in the past but I doubt it still is after all of the changes with the numerous coaches and such. Even still, I think they need to man up and start putting some results out there. It's better for the sport as a whole to get as much info out there for everyone.

[obnoxio]

ok. I'll start doing it.

[Bob Pollock]

[Southern_Hospitality]

If Norfwest replaced hazelhood central at this tournament,
who did Lindyburger replace?


Mahomet-Seymour

[robo]

Darth?!?!?! No one is lazy in Oakville. They have their way of doing things and just because it doesn't meet your expectations doesn't mean it's wrong.

Oakville has always operated under everyone's radar and will continue to do so. All you or I have to do is show up at a dual and all of our questions will be answered. I've been busy and haven't gotten down there myself this year but will be hanging with those guys next week and into January.

I disagree Mr Obie. That may have been a strategy in the past but I doubt it still is after all of the changes with the numerous coaches and such. Even still, I think they need to man up and start putting some results out there. It's better for the sport as a whole to get as much info out there for everyone.

When they don't even bother to post Lee's Summit, Raytown South, Helias/JC Duals, RBTOC, Cape, or Belton Tourney results, who cares what Oakville does in duals! What is really important is what happened at the: Brentwood, Republic, Hillsboro, Ritenour, Smithville, Burroughs, Union, Sabetha, Carl Junction, Steve Leslie, Patriot, Knob Noster, Neosho, Bolivar, Hazelwood West and Westminster tourneys. That is where the real interest is.

Geeezzzzz...!!!!

[RP-in-Nebraska]

When they don't even bother to post Lee's Summit, Raytown South, Helias/JC Duals, RBTOC, Cape, or Belton Tourney results......

Who exactly are the "they" responsible for posting results?

[robo]

Here is Oakville's line up for LSX.

103 OPEN
112 Nick Savage- 9
119 Scott Blessing- 11
125 Darren Green- 12
130 OPEN
135 Justin Northcutt- 11
140 Kyle Wood – 11
145 Bryan Leicht- 10
152 Blake Carrigan- 11
160 Kyle Foley- 12
171 Charles Toney- 10
189 James Jones- 11
215 Scott Marler- 11
275 OPEN
Not sure where Toney came from but he is a Brute. They all looked pretty good at LSX.

Toney is a brute with lots of talent. He is fast, strong, and has a very aggressive single and double leg attack for a big guy. I think he is a 2nd year wrestler who does not do off season so he is really raw.

Another interesting guy in that line-up is Marler. The kid has a real good looking athletic body. He is strong and shows lots of courage. What he lacks is experience. If they can bring him up to speed he could be a threat; if not this year then maybe next.

[robo]

When they don't even bother to post Lee's Summit, Raytown South, Helias/JC Duals, RBTOC, Cape, or Belton Tourney results......

Who exactly are the "they" responsible for posting results?

Whoever they are that use to post them! There never use to be a problem getting Lee's Summit and Raytown South Results. Those have long been two of the three or four best tourneys in state. It would seem like whoever the editor, moderator, administrator, etc....is would post those kinds of results on a site selling advertising on a H.S. wrestling site. It is like having a newspaper without news. But hey, I'm just an observer; I can go to the link and get the results myself. It is the same reason I don't subscribe to the newspaper any more, I can go on line and get my own news. I thought posting that sort of think also helped keep an interest in the sport and this web site?!?!?

[The Godfather]

When they don't even bother to post Lee's Summit, Raytown South, Helias/JC Duals, RBTOC, Cape, or Belton Tourney results......

Who exactly are the "they" responsible for posting results?

Whoever they are that use to post them! There never use to be a problem getting Lee's Summit and Raytown South Results. Those have long been two of the three or four best tourneys in state. It would seem like whoever the editor, moderator, administrator, etc....is would post those kinds of results on a site selling advertising on a H.S. wrestling site. It is like having a newspaper without news. But hey, I'm just an observer; I can go to the link and get the results myself. It is the same reason I don't subscribe to the newspaper any more, I can go on line and get my own news. I thought posting that sort of think also helped keep an interest in the sport and this web site?!?!?

I could be wrong, but you seem to be the only one so upset about having to click a link to go to another site to review results. Maybe you could find the time to enter those results on this site?

[RP-in-Nebraska]

Robo,

I, too, think it would be nice if those results were posted only because it is easier to go to the results page than to constantly search several different links. However, the posting of results is a user participation event. This site is set up to handle this very well. If users of this site would take ten minutes the day after a dual or 30 minutes the day after a tournament to post the results, we would all be thrilled but you can't expect one administrator and 2 moderators who have full time jobs to devote that much time to their privately donationally underfunded website. To give an idea of the time it would require, there are about 210 schools with wrestling programs. Each school probably has an average of 9 duals per year which equates to approximately 13,230 individual matches. Each team has an average of 5 tournaments per year prior to districts which equates to approximately 73,500 individual matches (modeling each tournament as a 16 man, double elimination with wrestleback rounds). All of these matches happen within a time period of approximately 2 months prior to the start of districts. This is 1,445.5 matches per day on average. Considering each match would need to have entered the two competitors, the type of win, and the score or time of fall this equates to approximately 10 typed words per match (ie. John Doe (Sweet Jesus High) WBF Fredrick Gonzalez (Springfield) 5:48 ) or 14,455 words typed per day. If there was a single results technician, that person would spend 361 minutes of the day, every day, inputting results assuming that the person typed at the national average rate of 40 words per minute - in other words, 6 hours. Even if the person is a master typist, he/she would spend 240 minutes inputting results while typing at 60 words per minute - 4 hours.

My ultimate point is that, I believe Hillary Clinton said it best, it takes a village.

[Louden]

Maybe you could find the time to enter those results on this site?

Man, I give up on this site. I just filled in the entire Cape Classic and got to 275 and hit a wrong button and it erased everything. I am not doing that again. That's the second time this happened to me in 2 days where I spent 20-30 minutes getting results or information together only to have it wipe completely out by hitting a wrong button. :smt076

[Bob Pollock]

[rider]

Oakville only had three duals, and the results are poster for all three.

[Southern_Hospitality]

If Norfwest replaced hazelhood central at this tournament,
who did Lindyburger replace?


Mahomet-Seymour

Wow, I am behind on the times because Mahomet-Seymour wasn't even there last year.

[The Godfather]

Robo,

I, too, think it would be nice if those results were posted only because it is easier to go to the results page than to constantly search several different links. However, the posting of results is a user participation event. This site is set up to handle this very well. If users of this site would take ten minutes the day after a dual or 30 minutes the day after a tournament to post the results, we would all be thrilled but you can't expect one administrator and 2 moderators who have full time jobs to devote that much time to their privately donationally underfunded website. To give an idea of the time it would require, there are about 210 schools with wrestling programs. Each school probably has an average of 9 duals per year which equates to approximately 13,230 individual matches. Each team has an average of 5 tournaments per year prior to districts which equates to approximately 73,500 individual matches (modeling each tournament as a 16 man, double elimination with wrestleback rounds). All of these matches happen within a time period of approximately 2 months prior to the start of districts. This is 1,445.5 matches per day on average. Considering each match would need to have entered the two competitors, the type of win, and the score or time of fall this equates to approximately 10 typed words per match (ie. John Doe (Sweet Jesus High) WBF Fredrick Gonzalez (Springfield) 5:48 ) or 14,455 words typed per day. If there was a single results technician, that person would spend 361 minutes of the day, every day, inputting results assuming that the person typed at the national average rate of 40 words per minute - in other words, 6 hours. Even if the person is a master typist, he/she would spend 240 minutes inputting results while typing at 60 words per minute - 4 hours.

My ultimate point is that, I believe Hillary Clinton said it best, it takes a village.

I think in the time it took you to calculate all of that information, you could have entered the results from the LSX tournament into this site. :D

[T.D.C.Dad]

Darth said
Man, I give up on this site. I just filled in the entire Cape Classic and got to 275 and hit a wrong button and it erased everything. I am not doing that again. That's the second time this happened to me in 2 days where I spent 20-30 minutes getting results or information together only to have it wipe completely out by hitting a wrong button.

Darth I've had the same thing happen to me when typing a long response. What I figured out is to keep at least one window open M.W.com besides the post I am typing in. And when you are ready to post simple refresh the other window before you press the summit button on the window your typing in hope this makes sense and helps you with your problem

[obnoxio]

Is Howell North still in this tournament?

If so, can the tournament orgainzers please rope off a section in the north bleachers for the Hatchels? I think they had more kids in the off-season and that brings their headcount to something like 15....

[obnoxio]

Yes, I'll be dining at Eddy's again this year... Cold beer, hot food and breast-feeding mothers.... It's my kind of place..

[Southern_Hospitality]

Yes, I'll be dining at Eddy's again this year... Cold beer, hot food and breast-feeding mothers.... It's my kind of place..


Expect nothing less from this hoosier town

[Louden]

What are the times on both days? I don't know when I can make it because I got work and stuff... I'm thinking I might be able to get out a little early on Friday...

[whitts]

Hey southern hospitality, I guess your one of those high class, think I am better than every one else people from Edwardsville. Yea there are hoosiers in Granite but there are also alot of people who are not hoosiers. Your talking about the biggest hoosier bar in town. You can't compare the people in that bar with the every day people of Granite City. Like every one here in Granite says, if you are down in the dumps and you need some thing to make you feel good about yourself, just go to Eddies.

[obnoxio]

if you are down in the dumps and you need some thing to make you feel good about yourself, just go to Eddies

ok

[Southern_Hospitality]

Hey southern hospitality, I guess your one of those high class, think I am better than every one else people from Edwardsville. Yea there are hoosiers in Granite but there are also alot of people who are not hoosiers. Your talking about the biggest hoosier bar in town. You can't compare the people in that bar with the every day people of Granite City. Like every one here in Granite says, if you are down in the dumps and you need some thing to make you feel good about yourself, just go to Eddies.

I never said that I am high class and I never said I was from Edwardsville. I am not that dumb either. I have alot of family and friends from Granite. Also, it was suppose to be a joke and sorry you took it so personally.

[RP-in-Nebraska]

I love it. Two supporters of Illinois wrestling arguing on the Missouri wrestling site about who is a snob and who is a hoosier. :lol:

[obnoxio]

I have alot of family and friends from Granite

Do you know Mickey Joe Stern from Madison, Il.?

[The Godfather]

Read an article on STLtoday.com about the Granite City Tournament. They said that Bailey will be going for his 4th title. Is he wrestling on Thursday and Friday?

[obnoxio]

You have to wrestle on thrusday and win, to wrestle on Friday....

[Smith]

Yes he is :D

[Southern_Hospitality]

I love it. Two supporters of Illinois wrestling arguing on the Missouri wrestling site about who is a snob and who is a hoosier. :lol:

Now that I think about it, I can't help but laugh at the situation.

[oxman]

I think "whitts" and "Southern_Hospitality" are both way too sophisticated to be from Granite City....
8)

[Louden]

I don't see how I am going to make it to this tournament unless I call in sick or something, but that wouldn't be very responsible of me so that's out of the question. Geez, this sucks. This is going to be the best tournament Northwest is in all year before Districts/State and I am going to miss most if not all of it....

[The Godfather]

I'm going to try to make it to the finals. I think I read that they don't start until 6PM on Friday, so it should be easy enough to get there from downtown by then.

[Louden]

I'm going to try to make it to the finals. I think I read that they don't start until 6PM on Friday, so it should be easy enough to get there from downtown by then.

Considering I get off work at 6 PM... it's going to be rough unless the cut a few people loose early. That would be my hope... Yesterday they let a bunch of people leave early but today is actually busy so I have no idea what is going to happen Friday.

[The Godfather]

I don't know that I would worry about it anyway, Darth. All of the NWHS wrestlers will be on their way home by 6:00PM on Friday night. :lol:

[Louden]

I don't know that I would worry about it anyway, Darth. All of the NWHS wrestlers will be on their way home by 6:00PM on Friday night. :lol:

FALSE! :evil:

Vito should go in ranked #1 but will have some tough battles. Todd Porter looks like he could be in there-at least has a decent shot. Same with Jake Waterkotte, he could potentially be there. I'd say that Ron Porter has a shot as well, since he did make it to the State Finals last year-even if it was a good run. There are several other kids that are strong competetors that have shots as well. It would be an upset for none of them to be in the finals.

[The Godfather]

I just had to give you a little crap. 8)

[Southern_Hospitality]

I think "whitts" and "Southern_Hospitality" are both way too sophisticated to be from Granite City....
8)

Wrong! I use to live in Granite City at one time. Just like every other city, it has it fare share good citizens

[Louden]

What are the results for Granite City last year?

[obnoxio]

they were never posted darth...

[Southern_Hospitality]

What are the results for Granite City last year?

Darth, try this link. I think it is on this web page. Let me know if you find it .

http://www.geocities.com/southernmanil/

[Southern_Hospitality]

When you get to that web page, click on historical results for 2004-2005.

[Southern_Hospitality]

It got links to alot of illinois tournaments. Just click on Granite City Holiday!

[Bob Pollock]

[Smith]

No. Not yet.

[gbmem]

what time does this start on thurs and friday

[Missinglink]

I haven't seen the start times for this year but I pulled an old program out of the file & this is what it reads:

1st Day -
1st Qualifying Session - 11 AM
2nd Qualifying Session - 5 PM

2nd Day -
1st Championship Session - 10:30 AM
Final Championship Session - 5 PM (5th Place Matches on 2 mats)
3rd Place & Championship Contests - 6 PM

[The Godfather]

Did you find out if you'll make it to the finals, Darth?

[Louden]

Did you find out if you'll make it to the finals, Darth?

I was just informed that we will be getting two hours of managment discresion time to use on Friday by either coming in late or leaving early. I will use it to leave early. I might even be sneaky by coming in to work early by an hour or so to leave at 3 rather than 4-or even worse, not take a lunch break and leave at 2. That would be best...

[The Godfather]

I think I'm gonna try to get over there by 6. I'd like to meet you if you're gonna be there. I'll be the big, goofy lookin red head that all of the women are following around. 8)

[wrestlefan19]

I think I'm gonna try to get over there by 6. I'd like to meet you if you're gonna be there. I'll be the big, goofy lookin red head )
Are you a Hatchel?

[The Godfather]

I think I'm gonna try to get over there by 6. I'd like to meet you if you're gonna be there. I'll be the big, goofy lookin red head )
Are you a Hatchel?

No...I'm a Puckett.

[obnoxio]

darph,
check your pm's
clown

[Bob Pollock]

[obnoxio]

Bob,

I'm creating an email distribution list on my 2-way communication device. If you're interested in getting some updates on the GCHT through your email, them check your PM for my 2-way address.

clown

[obnoxio]

Hurry, cause I'm getting ready to leave for the event.

[obnoxio]

I'll taking photos of the event too.

[Bob Pollock]

[obnoxio]

testing now.

[obnoxio]

bob, got your response. You're online. Clown

[gbmem]

where can i find out any results on the gc tournament

[Bob Pollock]

[Missinglink]

Here are some of the top team results from Day 1:
1 - Oak Park 114
2 - Granite City 81
2 - Northwest 81
4 - Edwardsville 80.5
5 - Civic Memorial (Bethalto) 69
6 - Triad 59

Oak Park qualified 13 for Day 2 - A good battle for the 2nd team spot.

[obnoxio]

My communications device can't get out over the steel mill smog....
Also, me and geezer took Darth to eddies for lunch and he drank 7 beers in 20 minutes, got into a fight with a local and vomited in my rice rocket...

sheesh

I'll type as much as I can...

103
top 4
allgire BW
kraeger Tri
Thomas Eville
Styer MN
Still alive---summers lind, waterkotte nw
112
top 4
uehlin op
krischke nw
galbraith bw
Lunn eville
SA -- mihter MN, brooks HN, Irwin Lind
119
top 4
Hachtel HN
Ragan Car
Green op (hatchtel beat green 5-2)
Mcintyre MZ
SA -- krischke nw, bunch of ILL kids

[obnoxio]

125
top 4
Nay op
Hill Rox
ingargiola nw
Murphy GC
SA -- Stinebrook Lind, Nicholas HN

130
Top 4
Some kid named Scott
Green O
Vanvelkinburgh HN (lost to the scott kid 4-1)
Sanchez rox
SA -- Chandler (lost to green 8-6), cain lind

135
Top 4
Joiner op (not even tested so far)
Beasley Eville
Waterkotte nw
Eaton cm
SA -- Northcutt O

[obnoxio]

140
Top 4
Baily op
Babcock Cm
Porter NW
Howell GC
SA -- King MN, Bunch of Ill. kids

145
top 4
Weber OP (the big nay has a bad foot/ankle)
Wagoner GC
Hagopainn Eville
Bearden Lind
SA -- Shelton MN, bunch of Ill kids

152
Top 4
Hall OP
Traylor Be
Reed GC
Bullard OF
SA -- Uzzetta NW, Pearson MN, other Ill kids

160
Top 4
Foley O (3-0 over Koelling)
Woods MN
Koelling OP
Treat Eville
SA -- Corzine Nw, Higgs lind, other Ill kids

171
Top 4
Haynes op (this kid is scary)
Schlotter Tri (I pitty the fool)
Barnett (haynes sent him to the hospital so he's more than likely done)
Williams MZ
SA -- Parks mn, bunch of Ill kids

189
Top 4
Penny GC
Flaugher Eville
Johnson Tri
Cotton BW
SA -- Galich OP, Porter NW

[obnoxio]

215 I don't know cause I was talking to some girls
275 I don't know cause I was talking to some other girls

Sorry

[obnoxio]

Gotta run, talk to you kids later tonight.

[Bob Pollock]

[obnoxio]

Tournament brackets only show James Bearden Lind at 145

[obnoxio]

152 had 4 byes. Lindbergh has no wrestler at 152

[Bob Pollock]

[RP-in-Nebraska]

215 I don't know cause I was talking to some girls
275 I don't know cause I was talking to some other girls

Sorry

:lol:

You said OP had 13 in which means only one did not advance yet I did not see Mac Bailey listed nor did I see an OP 189 pounder listed (whomever that is). Did Mac advance and it just wasn't recorded properly? Is he even wrestling this tournament?

[obnoxio]

sort of.....they do things kind of strange in Ill.......two kids have no losses and two kids won their first two matches but lost their third one..but then you have some kids who lost thier first one but won their next 2...

I'll bring the brackets to the hickman tourny,,,you'll see then.

[The Godfather]

When is Oak Parks new heavy supposed to start wrestling? I thought I read somewhere that he was going to be in this tournament...

[Southern_Hospitality]

Hey obnoxio, are you still online?

[Bob Pollock]

[Southern_Hospitality]

Yeah, Cody Tyler wrestled at 103 for Oak Park.

[Bob Pollock]

[The Godfather]

I suspect Mac is still in the penalty box. I know he isn't wrestling.

In the penalty box? I thought he was injured?

[Bob Pollock]

[Louden]

When robo said the seeding was really suspicious here, he wasn't lying. Oak Park got the #1 seed in every match, and convieniently Granite City didn't get to see Oak Park very much whereas teams like Northwest and such got matched up against Oak Park at every turn... hmmmm

Also odd, Even though a stud little leaguer, Oak Park has their 103 JV guy wrestling, and he gets seeded over Collin Allgire? Over Jake Waterkotte? Same thing with 112, Uehlin gets seeded over Krischke?

The seedings here are so whacky, one can't help but think that Granite City doesn't take a good long look at things to see what would make it easiest for them, not just in the first round matches, but if they were to lose a match they were supposed to, they might get matched up decently for their elimination match the first day.

I'm not saying this as fact, but the seedings are very suspicious because no other tournament I have been to is seeded without any clear logic like this one...

Greg Lester, you and I talked about this over PM so I'll let you know that Vito Krischke wrestled Lunn, was beating lunn 11-0 and then stuck him. Lunn looked lost on the mat and wasn't quite the challange I thought he was going to be. I don't know whether that is a huge sign that Vito has gotton good, or that Lunn was overrated. Or both.

Oh, also, Vito Krischke wrestled Mentor again, was beating him by over a major, and then pinned him.

Notes from the tourney, Hatchel beats Oak Parks Green 5-2, Bailey struggled against Aaron Winning 3-1, and then hands sophmore Todd Porter his first loss with a 15-5 major. I was really impressed with Todd, despite knowing he was against arguably the #1 wrestler in Missouri and being a sophmore, he came after Bailey and was the aggressor the entire match. Bailey is just too slick and good.

Oak Parks JV sub-in for Shane Nay is a stud, I think they put steroids in the waterfountains at OP's wrestling practice. Even their JV guys are kickin butt!

Chandler lost 8-6 to Green of Oakville. I wouldn't consider it a shock if Chandler was able to win this match come Districts. He's getting better and better.

Ron Porter got stopped by some Illinois wrestler 13-9 but beat Knopf to stay alive.

Uzzetta got thrashed by Hall.

Oak Parks 103 sub in is out, but wrestled very tough.

Ian Darr is a monster... he made me give him my lunch money...

Uehlin had a close match winning 7-5 against some Illinois kid.

Little Nay beat Ingarigiola 7-1.

My predicition with Robo still stands, I said 2nd or 3rd and it's well underway. It will be determined by todays wrestling and I hope it continues okay...

[Southern_Hospitality]

When robo said the seeding was really suspicious here, he wasn't lying. Oak Park got the #1 seed in every match, and convieniently Granite City didn't get to see Oak Park very much whereas teams like Northwest and such got matched up against Oak Park at every turn... hmmmm

Also odd, Even though a stud little leaguer, Oak Park has their 103 JV guy wrestling, and he gets seeded over Collin Allgire? Over Jake Waterkotte? Same thing with 112, Uehlin gets seeded over Krischke?

The seedings here are so whacky, one can't help but think that Granite City doesn't take a good long look at things to see what would make it easiest for them, not just in the first round matches, but if they were to lose a match they were supposed to, they might get matched up decently for their elimination match the first day.

I'm not saying this as fact, but the seedings are very suspicious because no other tournament I have been to is seeded without any clear logic like this one...

Greg Lester, you and I talked about this over PM so I'll let you know that Vito Krischke wrestled Lunn, was beating lunn 11-0 and then stuck him. Lunn looked lost on the mat and wasn't quite the challange I thought he was going to be. I don't know whether that is a huge sign that Vito has gotton good, or that Lunn was overrated. Or both.

Oh, also, Vito Krischke wrestled Mentor again, was beating him by over a major, and then pinned him.

Notes from the tourney, Hatchel beats Oak Parks Green 5-2, Bailey struggled against Aaron Winning 3-1, and then hands sophmore Todd Porter his first loss with a 15-5 major. I was really impressed with Todd, despite knowing he was against arguably the #1 wrestler in Missouri and being a sophmore, he came after Bailey and was the aggressor the entire match. Bailey is just too slick and good.

Oak Parks JV sub-in for Shane Nay is a stud, I think they put steroids in the waterfountains at OP's wrestling practice. Even their JV guys are kickin butt!

Chandler lost 8-6 to Green of Oakville. I wouldn't consider it a shock if Chandler was able to win this match come Districts. He's getting better and better.

Ron Porter got stopped by some Illinois wrestler 13-9 but beat Knopf to stay alive.

Uzzetta got thrashed by Hall.

Oak Parks 103 sub in is out, but wrestled very tough.

Ian Darr is a monster... he made me give him my lunch money...

Uehlin had a close match winning 7-5 against some Illinois kid.

Little Nay beat Ingarigiola 7-1.

My predicition with Robo still stands, I said 2nd or 3rd and it's well underway. It will be determined by todays wrestling and I hope it continues okay...

Thank you! I told you before the seeding was going be favorable for Granite. I can't believe that Aaron Winning (althoff, Class A state running up) was in the same portion of the bracket as Zach Bailey.

[Southern_Hospitality]

Granite Coach: The trick is let get as many of own wrestlers through to the 2nd day with the easiest draw we come with.

[Louden]

Granite Coach: The trick is let get as many of own wrestlers through to the 2nd day with the easiest draw we come with.

Wow, what a classy guy, admittingly rigging the tourney to suit his own team...

Here's a novel idea, get the correct seedings and let the kids earn their way into the next day instead of excluding more deserving kids by making three better wrestlers eliminate one of their number while the GC kid wrestlers lesser talent...

[Louden]

Anyway, I am off to GC now. I shouldn't be but I have personal time to use at work.

[Greg]

Darth so far this season most of the scores I have seen have not surprised me, but two of the scores I have seen involving Chad Lunn have surprised me. The two were his match against Zumwalt West and the one you posted about this morning. By the way, I think the answer to your question will come when Vito wrestles Uehlin of Oak Park. Please post some details of that match because I would like to know how it turns out. Thanks in advance. One last question, was the Hachtel-Green match at 119 or 125?

[Bob Pollock]

[Greg]

Thanks Bob.

[Bob Pollock]

[Missinglink]

We've been over this turf before but it seems to always come up at tournament time - the 1st day of the GC Holiday Tournament IS NOT SEEDED. They place a school with a full lineup on the top line (this year Oak Park) & draw the rest in with a general attempt to place the top two wrestlers on opposite sides of the brackets. The 2nd day of the tournament IS SEEDED based on the results from day one. All wrestlers with two wins on day one advance and the two wrestlers with three wins will be placed on opposite sides of the 8 man bracket & they try to get new matchups. Oftentimes the finals see a rematch from day one. I'm not defending, just explaining.

[Bob Pollock]

[Missinglink]

Here are the Day One Granite City results:

http://www.geocities.com/southernmanil/ ... s_2005.htm (http://www.geocities.com/southernmanil/2005_06_Results/1st_Day_Wrestling_Brackets_2005.htm)

[Missinglink]

Here are the 8-man brackets for the GC Holiday Tournament:

http://www.geocities.com/southernmanil/ ... s_2005.htm (http://www.geocities.com/southernmanil/2005_06_Results/2nd_Day_Brackets_2005.htm)

[Bob Pollock]

[oxman]

Does anyone have any team score results?

Missinglink---You are correct about there being no seeding during the first day at GC.
Each weight class has a different rotation, similar to what we do for Missouri State.

The second day pairings are determined by the results of the first day.
Again, it is similar to the way that Missouri State is paired depending on the results of Districts.

I have been involved with the pairing committee in the past, and there is no hankey-pankey.....
But, the conspiracy theorists revive the theory each year.....keeping the legend alive.... :)
8)

[gbmem]

what time do they stare wrestling for 1-6 place

[Bob Pollock]

[RP-in-Nebraska]

"Green is out"?

What do you mean by that? He lost in the semis, I assume?

[Bob Pollock]

[wrestlefan19]

soo whos in the 1st place match at 119?

[Bob Pollock]

[Greg]

Anyone know the score between Vito and Brooks in the first round? Also who did Vito wrestle in the semis and what was the score?

[The Godfather]

Just got home from GC and wanted to give my thoughts.

103 - Allgire is a stud. Waterkotte looked good in the 3rd place match and avenged his earlier loss to Styer.

112 - Krischke stuck Uehlin. Krischke didn't impress me as much as I thought he would. Uehlin, IMO, was the aggressor until he got caught.

119 - Ciccarelli 1st, Hatchel 4th. Joe Green lost to Ciccarelli 4-2 in the first bracketed round, then lost to Pablo Orozco (GC) 4-2 in the first round of wrestlebacks.

125 - Now, I thought the reffing was pretty good up until this match. Nay lost by 2 to Tommy Hill of Roxana. Nay had 2 takedowns that the ref called out of bounds, plus another takedown that the ref only gave him 1 escape point for. Randy Smith was not happy.

130 - Scotty O smoked Vanvelkinburgh. Let me just say that Scotty O is one bad dude...kid is an animal. He didn't look happy about Nay's loss and took it to Vanvelkinburgh.

135 - Joiner looked good beating Beasley (Edw).

140 - Now to the man. Zack Bailey absolutely EMBARRASSED Tyler Babcock of Civic Memorial. You could tell that Babcock was a good wrestler, but Bailey kicked his arse without even trying. It was amazing to watch that match.

I left after the 140 match because I was about to choke some Roxana fans next to me...no class at all.

A couple other notes...

Northwest looked solid.

When the wrestlers lined, seeing almost a complete line of Oak Park wrestlers going for 1st was very impressive. Mayabb and Smith have done an excellent job.

[The Godfather]

Anyone know the score between Vito and Brooks in the first round? Also who did Vito wrestle in the semis and what was the score?

Vito beat Brooks 11-6.

[The Godfather]

He is out of the medal round which means he lost to Ciccarelli and then to ?? (probably Stacci)

Bob, Stassi lost to Hatchel 13-3 in the first bracketed round. Then Stassi lost to Jared Ragan (Carbondale) 14-6 in the wrestleback semis. I believe he took 5th.

[Bob Pollock]

[The Godfather]

Appreciate the info, can't wait to see the brackets. A few ?s:
Did Watercotte wrestle for 3rd at 103
Did Vito I and Nick Stinebrook wrestle for 3rd at 125
Did Derren Green get 3rd at 130
Was Wattercotte at 130 in the 3rd place match
How could you possibly leave early

Yes, Watercotte beat Styer for 3rd at 103.

No, Stinebrook wrestled Erbacher (BE) for 3rd. Vito I wrestled Ash (Cahokia) for 5th.

Green lost to Sanchez (Roxana) for 3rd.

Max Waterkotte wrestled for 5th at 135.

Had to leave early...got a date tonight. :D

[Bob Pollock]

[Lou]

103

1) Collin Allgire (BW) WBF Daryl Thomas (Edw)
3) Jake Waterkotte (NW) Dec Matt Styer (MN) 10-6
5) Kyle Kraeger (Tri) Dec Brock Summers (Lind) 3-1

112

1) Vito Krischke (NW) WBF Marty Uehlin (OP)
3) Josh Galbraith (BW) Dec Chad Lunn (Edw) 4-2
5) Robby Brooks (FHN) WBF Kody Preeswood (GC)

119

1) A.J. Ciccerelli (Edw) MDec Herb Krischke (NW) 12-5
3) Jared Ragan (Car) Dec Kyle Hachtel (FHN) 4-3
5) Pablo Orozco (GC) Dec Chad Stassi (Rox) 11-4

125

1) Tommy Hill (Rox) Dec Jacob Nay (OP) 8-3
3) Brandon Erbacher (BE) Dec Nick Stinbrook (Lind) 12-5
5) Vito Ingargiola (NW) Dec Tyez Ash (Cah) 7-6

130

1) Scott O'Donnell (OP) MDec John VanVelkinburgh (FHN) 13-5
3) Brian Sanchez (Rox) InjDef Darrin Green (Oak)
5) Joe Potts (Car) Dec Matt Chandler (NW) 9-7

135

1) Dylan Joiner (OP) MDec Matt Beasley (Edw) 10-1
3) Tyler Carney (GC) Dec Travis Eaton (CM) 6-2
5) Max Waterkotte (NW) MDec Justin Northcutt (Oak) 12-3

140

1) Zach Bailey (OP) Dec Tyler Babcock (CM) 11-5
3) Aaron Winning (BA) WBF Todd Porter (NW)
5) Troy Howell (GC) InjDef Bryson Jackstadt (Edw)

[Lou]

145

1) Austin Wagoner (GC) MDec James Bearden (Lind) 11-3
3) David Weber (OP) Dec Kyle Reid (BE) 8-3
5) Dominique Shelton (MN) Dec Stephen Hagopian (Edw) 3-1

152

1) Tray Traylor (BE) MDec Ray Hall (OP) 9-0
3) Josh Ratterman (BW) WBF Blake Reed (GC)
5) Nick Uzzetta (NW) WBF Nick Bullard (OF)

160

1) Kyle Foley (Oak) Dec Matt Koelling (OP) 4-2
3) Donald Woods (MN) MDec Josh Byrum (GC) 19-7
5) Martavius Hines (Cah) Dec Ben Treat (Edw) 5-2

171

1) Brent Haynes (OP) TFall Brett Grant (CM) 16-0
3) John Schlotter (Tri) Dec Jordan Parks (MN) 8-5
5) Mike Raney (BA) Dec Eric Williams (MZ) 8-4

189

1) Scott Penny (GC) Dec Chris Flaugher (Edw) 5-1
3) Zach Johnson (Tri) WBF Terry Cotton (BW)
5) Ron Porter (NW) Dec Mikail Galich (OP) 7-2

215

1) Brandon Harrington (Tri) Dec Andrew Sanchez (OF) 7-4
3) Zach Palme (Edw) Dec Mike Smith (Car) 7-6
5) Kolton Kono (OP) MDec Ricky Barnett (GC) 13-4

275

1) Sean Bahami (Edw) Dec Ian Darr (CM) 4-2 ot
3) James Sills (FHN) WBF Eric Bradshaw (OP)
5) Steve Himmelman (NW) WBF Andy Head (Tri)

[Bob Pollock]

[Lou]

:?

[Bob Pollock]

[gacfanski]

OP = 321
Edwardsville = 217
Northwest = 193
Granite City = 182 or 187 (can't remember exactly)

[Greg]

Thanks Puckett for the info.

[Lou]

Team scores that I came up with (Not official)

1) Oak Park - 321.5
2) Edwardsville - 217.5
3) Northwest - 193
4) Granite City - 186
5) Civic Memorial - 139.5
6) Triad - 123
7) Belleville West - 120.5
8) Francis Howell North - 105
9) McCluer North - 99
10) Belleville East - 93.5
11) Roxana - 78
12) Lindbergh - 70
13) Carbondale - 63.5
14) Oakville - 61
15) Belleville Althoff - 56
16) O'Fallon - 47.5
17) Cahokia - 39.5
18) Mt. Zion - 38.5

[Missinglink]

Granite City Holiday Wrestling Tournament - Championship Results:

http://www.geocities.com/southernmanil/ ... s_2005.htm (http://www.geocities.com/southernmanil/2005_06_Results/2nd_Day_Brackets_2005.htm)

[Bob Pollock]

[southernmanil]

Granite City final results are now posted on the Southern Illinois Wrestling Forum at http://www.network54.com/Forum/231915/ and the website at http://www.geocities.com/southernmanil/

[Jerry Langdon]

http://prepsports.stltoday.com/ssi/prep ... enDocument (http://prepsports.stltoday.com/ssi/prep/stories2006.nsf/wrestling/story/A9A599F6ECDD3C35862570E800224F27?OpenDocument)

Post Dispatch article on GC.

[obnoxio]

Ash refused to shake hands at the end of the match.

[RP-in-Nebraska]

Haynes won by tech fall in the finals 16-0! Was he even tested at all at this tournament?

[Louden]

112 - Krischke stuck Uehlin. Krischke didn't impress me as much as I thought he would. Uehlin, IMO, was the aggressor until he got caught.


I understand Uehlin was up 2-1 when he got stuck. Should be a re-match depending on the brackets in Columbia.


Okay, let me clear this up. Uehlin was not up 2-1. It was the second period and no offensive points were scored.
To Puckett, Uehlin also did not get "caught" in a lucky sense. What you saw was good old fashioned Vito Krischke wrestling. He's pinned many people just like that, and he intentionally put Uehlin on his back and pinned him. Considering he just did that to a superstar wrestler like Uehlin in only 3 minutes... I can't see how you aren't impressed by Krischke and I saw both wrestlers as being aggressive.

Vito finds ways to win and his style is different. His semi-final was tough, in the same way that Mentor wrestled him tough at Cape, and then Vito turned it around by beating Mentor by a major and then pinning him here at GC. Very strong wrestlers sometimes give Vito a challenge until he figures them out.

I'm still put off by "not being impressed" because it sounds like you are a little biased... Did you see Vito beat the tar out of Chad Lunn? Lunn is a superb wrestler, lost to Uehlin 4-2 in a contested match. Vito was beating Lunn 11-0 when he stuck him, and this happened in 2:36.

[Louden]

Haynes won by tech fall in the finals 16-0! Was he even tested at all at this tournament?

No, Haynes is a beast.

[Louden]

Robo was gracious in defeat. He predicted a much lower finish for Northwest but the boys proved my guesstimate correct with a 3rd place finish. (I said 2nd or 3rd) .GC is a very tough tournament, and I think Northwest could very well have taken second but took some tough close losses during Day 2's second round wrestlebacks. That allowed Edwardsville to not look back and made beating Granite City a concern, whereas the lead was decent until that point. Nevertheless the boys rebounded with vigor and held off GC, who has placed in the top three of their own tourney for as long as robo said he can remember, (which might be a few weeks ago... :lol: ) It would be interesting to see how long it has been since GC didn't place in the top 3 at their tourney.

Oak Park's program is a machine. It runs and runs and never quits, but even they took some licking along the way. Bailey was tested by Winning, Joe Green took 3 losses, some of their top guys took losses, but overall they dominate all competition. Even their lesser known guys are tough kids and deserve credit. I don't think that as a team they can be tested unless they face nationally ranked squads or out of state tournaments. Even the toughest tournaments around are handled by this team. Everyone should enjoy them because a team like this doesn't last forever and doesn't happen very often. The only other teams that come to mind in recent memory was Platte County and Oakville's squads that set state records.

[Louden]

Important Matches of Note:

103:

2nd Day

Allgire (1st) WBF Steyer (4th)
Thomas (2nd) 4-3 Kraeger (5th)
Waterkotte (3rd) WBF Kraeger (5th)
Steyer (4th) 10-2 Summers (6th)
Steyer (4th) 6-5 Waterkotte (3rd)

Waterkotte never got to wrestle Thomas, who took second.

First Day

Allgire (1st) 8-0 Waterkotte (3rd)
Kraeger (5th) 7-4 Steyer (4th)
Thomas (2nd) 6-3 Summers (6th)

112:

Second Day

Uehlin (2nd) 4-2 Lunn (4th)
Krischke (1st) 7-6 Galbraith (3rd)
Lunn (4th) 4-2 Brooks (5th)
Brooks (5th) 10-2 Mentor
Uehlin (1st) 16-5 Irwin
Krischke (1st) 11-6 Brooks (5th)

First Day

Uehlin (2nd) 7-5 Galbraith (3rd)
Krischke (1st) WBF 2:36 Lunn (4th)
Krischke (1st) WBF 5:05 Mentor
Presswood (6th) 5-4 Brooks (5th)

119:

Second Day

Herb Krischke (2nd) 11-9 Hatchell (4th)
Ciccarelli (1st) 1-0 Ragan (3rd)
Hatchel (4th) 8-3 Orozco (5th)
Ciccarelli (1st) 4-2 Green
Orozco (5th) 4-2 Green
Krischke (2nd) 6-2 McIntyre

First Day

Ragan (3rd) 3-2 MacIntyre
Hatchel (4th) 5-2 Green
Green 8-4 Krischke (2nd)
Ragan (3rd) 4-0 Ciccarelli (1st)
Green 3-2 Orozco (5th)

125:

Second Day

Nay (2nd) WBF :50 Stinebrook (4th)
Hill (1st) 14-3 Ingarigiola (5th)
Erbacher (3rd) 1:15 Ingarigiola (5th)
Stinebrook (4th) 5-0 Ash (6th)
Nay (2nd) WBF 1:36 Erbacher (3rd)
Hill (1st) 8-2 Ash (6th)

First Day

Nay (2nd) 7-1 Ingarigiola (5th)
Nay (2nd) 10-2 Stinebrook (4th)
Hill (1st) 3:11 Erbacher (3rd)

[fudge tunnel]

....and imagine what they'll be like w/ M Bailey, S Nay and Madison all on the team at the same time.....

[Louden]

130

Second Day

O'Donnell (1st) WBF :18 Sanchez (3rd)
VanVelkinburgh (2nd) 7-1 Green (4th)
O'Donnell (1st) 12-4 Cain
VanVelkinburgh (2nd) 15-0 Chandler (6th)
Green (4th) 16-0 Potts (5th)
Potts (5th) 2-1 Cain
Sanchez (3rd) 10-5 Chandler (6th)

First Day

O'Donnell (1st) 3:31 Potts (5th)
Green (4th) 8-6 Chandler (6th)
Green (4th) 5-3 Sanchez (3rd)
O'Donnell (1st) 4-1 VanVelkinburgh (2nd)
Green (4th) 4-1 Cain

135

Second Day

Joiner (1st) WBF Carney (3rd)
Beasley (2nd) 9-1 Waterkotte (5th)
Eaton (4th) 6-4 OT Waterkotte (5th)
Carney (3rd) 7-3 Northcutt (6th)
Beasley (2nd) 16-8 Northcutt (6th)
Carney (3rd) 3-0 Eaton (4th)

First Day

Waterkotte (5th) 9-5 Carney (3rd)
Joiner (1st) WBF Waterkotte (5th)
Waterkotte (5th) 17-2 Northcutt (6th)
Beasley (2nd) 3-1 Eaton (4th)

140:

Second Day

Bailey (1st) 8-4 Winning (3rd)
Babcock (2nd) 21-6 Porter (4th)
Porter (4th) 9-5 Howell (5th)
Winning (3rd) 8-0 Jackstradt (6th)
Porter (4th) 9-3 Jackstradt (6th)

First Day:

Bailey (1st) 15-5 Porter (4th)
Bailey (1st) 3-1 Winning (3rd)
Babcock (2nd) 5-1 Howell (5th)
Howell (5th) 3-0 Jackstradt (6th)

145:


Second Day

Bearden (2nd) 6-4 OT Weber (3rd)
Wagoner (1st) WBF Reid (4th)
Weber (3rd) 1-0 Hagopian (6th)

First Day

Wagoner (1st) 4-1 Bearden (2nd)
Weber (3rd) 12-5 Hagopian (6th)
Bearden (2nd) 3-2 Reid (4th)

152:

Second Day

Hall (2nd) 13-4 Uzzetta (5th)
Traylor (1st) 12-10 Ratterman (3rd)
Reed (4th) WBF Uzzetta (5th)
Uzzetta (5th) WBF Bullard (6th)
Ratterman (3rd) WBF Reed (4th)

First Day

Hall (2nd) WBF Uzzetta (5th)
Hall (2nd) 10-7 Reed (4th)
Traylor (1st) 9-3 Ratterman (3rd)
Traylor (1st) WBF Bullard (6th)

160:

Second Day

Foley (1st) 4-2 Corzine
Foley (1st) 10-4 Hines (5th)
Koehlling (2nd) 3-1 Woods (3rd)
Woods (3rd) 9-5 Treat (6th)
Byrum (4th) 6-1 OT Hines (5th)
Treat (6th) 3-0 Corzine

First Day

Koehlling (2nd) 14-7 Hines (5th)
Foley (1st) 3-0 Koelling (2nd)
Treat (6th) 3-1 Byrum (4th)
Bryum (4th) 3-0 Corzine
Woods (3rd) 12-7 Treat (6th)

[Louden]

171:

Second Day

Haynes (1st) WBF 1:58 Raney (5th)
Grant (2nd) WBF Parks (4th)
Parks (4th) 8-7 Williams (6th)
Schlotter (3rd) 3-2 Raney (5th)
Parks (4th) 13-0 Schlotter (3rd)

First Day

Schlotter (3rd) 14-8 Williams (6th)
Schlotter (3rd) 9-7 Grant (2nd)

189:

Second Day

Penny (1st) WBF Galich (6th)
Flaugher (2nd) 16-0 Porter (5th)
Cotton (4th) 6-5 Porter (5th)
Johnson (3rd) WBF Galich (6th)
Porter (5th) 8-7 Johnson (3rd)
Galich (6th) 3-2 Cotton (4th)

First Day

Johnson (3rd) WBF Galich (6th)
Penny (1st) WBF Johnson (3rd)
Cotton (4th) 13-9 Porter (5th)
Flaugher (2nd) WBF Cotton (4th)


215:

Second Day

Sanchez (2nd) 8-7 Kono (5th)
Herrington (1st) 6-3 Palme (3rd)
Palme (3rd) 18-4 Barnett (6th)
Smith (4th) 5-0 Kono (5th)
Herrington (1st) WBF Smith (4th)

First Day

Kono (5th) 4-1 Aten
Kono (5th) 9-7 OT Palme (3rd)
Herrington (1st) 6-4 Sanchez (2nd)

275:

Second Day

Bahami (1st) 7-6 Sills (3rd)
Darr (2nd) WBF Bradshaw (4th)
Bradshaw (4th) WBF Himmelmann (5th)
Sills (3rd) WBF Head (6th)
Sills (3rd) 6-0 Himmelmann (5th)
Darr (2nd) WBF Head (6th)

First Day

Bradshow (4th) WBF Himmelmann (5th)
Bahami (1st) WBF Bradshaw (4th)
Darr (2nd) 9-4 Sills (3rd)

[The Godfather]

I knew my comment would stir you up, Darth, but I honestly didn't mean any disrespect. I guess my thinking was, if I was a guy that was undefeated last year until the state finals, I would be a little more aggressive, kind of like Scotty O was. O'Donnell was wrestling a quality kid and smoked him...he was hitting takedowns at will. I wasn't implying that Vito got lucky and I'm sure he had every intention of pinning him like that, I guess all I'm saying is that if Uehlin hadn't gotten "caught", it would have been a VERY close match, considering no offensive points had been scored up to that point. I was just looking for him to be more dominating, hence my comment about not being as impressed as I thought I would be, that's all.

[Louden]

I knew my comment would stir you up, Darth, but I honestly didn't mean any disrespect. I guess my thinking was, if I was a guy that was undefeated last year until the state finals, I would be a little more aggressive, kind of like Scotty O was. O'Donnell was wrestling a quality kid and smoked him...he was hitting takedowns at will. I wasn't implying that Vito got lucky and I'm sure he had every intention of pinning him like that, I guess all I'm saying is that if Uehlin hadn't gotten "caught", it would have been a VERY close match, considering no offensive points had been scored up to that point. I was just looking for him to be more dominating, hence my comment about not being as impressed as I thought I would be, that's all.

Understood, but not everyone has the same style of wrestling, and it was a bit early to say whether or not it would have been close. Let's assume that Uehlin got out of the pinning combination, then right there Vito would have scored 5 points. Since he was able to do this to Uehlin halfway through the match, who's to say he would or would not have done it again, scoring another 5 point move? The fact is that we have no clue what the score would have been. It could have ended 6-1 if Uehlin escaped and nothing else happened in the entire match, or it could have been something else. We didn't get to see that though, as Vito is a very good pinner. He has the most pins on the team.

[The Godfather]

You're right, there is no way to know. Do they see each other again before the state tournament?

[Louden]

You're right, there is no way to know. Do they see each other again before the state tournament?

Nope, this was the one match.

[Bob Pollock]

[Louden]

Uehlin over Krischke by 3 at state. :smt039
Had to do it Darth. Congrats to Vito and NW.

I'll put $100 against that. I'm serious. Are you as confident at me?

[whitts]

for those that are crying about the seeding, there is no seeding at this tournament, they strictly go by a formula that is set up before the tournament even starts. So stop complaining about the brackets and talk about the matches.

[Louden]

for those that are crying about the seeding, there is no seeding at this tournament, they strictly go by a formula that is set up before the tournament even starts. So stop complaining about the brackets and talk about the matches.

What is the formula? Oak Park #1 across the board? I'm not complaining, I just wonder what the reasoning is behind everything. I see tons of studs like Hatchell or Woods getting seeded far too low... GC seems to have a very odd set up and I am curious to know the deal behind it all.

[oxman]

Darth---I do not feel that Hachtel or Woods got seeded too low, as there is no seeding during the first day whatsoever. They may have been victim to a tough pairing, not sure.....It definitely happens in all tournaments.

Let me ATTEMPT to explain what they do:
Granite City uses a blind formula rotation similar to the rotation that we use at Missouri State.
ANY team with 14 wrestlers can be placed at the top position of the 14 brackets, then the other teams are rotated around that top team. Originally, GC was usually placed at the top of each bracket, but some fans confused "top position" in the bracket with "top seed". So, GC began using other teams which had 14 wrestlers as the "top position" of the rotation. You COULD use exactly the same pairings as they did two days ago, but place Oak Park on line 2-16, then rotate. It would still be exactly the same pairing.

The point is "Top position" is not the same as "Top seed", even if it were a seeded tournament. Plus, it is not even a seeded tournament anyway.

If you check the Missouri State brackets from last year(or any year), you will notice that the Champion of District #1 is always placed on line #1 of the bracket of EVERY weight class. This does not mean that they are "seeded" #1, however. There is no advantage to being placed on line#1. The other 15 wrestlers are being paired(via a rotation) around the Champ of District#1.

The point is that ANY team with 14 wrestlers COULD have been placed where Oak Park was. There is no mathematical advantage to being placed there. The rotation is predetermined, just like the ones used for Missouri State.

Many years back when I first was coaching at Hazelwood Central, there were some coaches concerned that some wrestlers were being paired during the 2nd day against the very same guy that had beaten them the first day. They modified the pairing rules for the second day to REDUCE this occuring as much as possible.

First of all, let me say that I am not sure it is even POSSIBLE to get a good pairing at GC. No matter where you are, it is going to be tough! Concerning Hachtel, for example, I am not sure that I would consider his pairing a bad one(relatively speaking). The first day Hachtel went 3-0. None of the three guys he beat placed in the Top-6. That is very rare and is about as good a pairing as one can dream for at GC. The top bracket(Hachtel's) placed 2nd, 4th, 5th. The lower bracket placed 1st, 3rd, 6th.
The second day, Hachtel gets paired opposite bracket from the other undefeated guy(Ragan) and the guy he beat in the semis(Green). That is as fair as it gets. However, he ended up losing to a guy(Krischke ) that Green had beaten first day. The second day, Hachtel's bracket placed 2nd, 4th, 6th. The other bracket placed 1st, 3rd, 5th.

Although bad pairings certainly do happen, they are more a case of CHANCE and not a case of some intentional manipulation. Just like our pairing system for Missouri State, sometimes you can get a REALLY bad pairing..... :)

I always liked tournaments with different formats...just for their novelty. What I enjoyed about Granite City was the ability to possibly lose the first day, yet still take first. It was one of the first tournaments to allow that concept.(Several others have followed).....

Darth---You are not the first to wonder how the heck the pairings are done at GC....
The first few years that I took my team there(Hazelwood Central) I was...let's say.....very curious.... :)
Living in Granite City all of my life, and having Red Schmitt as my high school coach, I had the meet director, Mr. Moski(also my former Art teacher) explain all the pairings to me....
I was very impressed with the pairing rules and the logic behind them....
8)

[JustAMom]

Happy New Year to all!! I think it was a great tournament. That is the kind of competion you want to see at this time in the season. I don't think the pairing were bad, and Kyle had a great opportunity but came up short. That is the way things go. I think that maybe the way the brackets laid out do kind of help benefit team points wise a bit. However, I do think that the best teams came out in the top five. Just maybe not in the right order 2 through 5. Oak Park always impresses me!!! They not only have great wrestlers but they handle themselves with such grace I think it should make Missouri proud. What a bunch of great fans as well. Darth, Northwest does have a great team and you should be as proud of them as your are!!! It was fun to be surrounded by Oak Park, Northwest, and Granite City fans as they were all good people. Heck, thanks to all for putting up with my twin terrors. :oops: The clown tried to warn the tournament organizers to rope off a section but they didn't listen. Granite City Tournament is my favorite tournament in our schedule. The officiating was awesome! I don't see how to many people can complain. As a fan, I always cheer for my team first, then the GAC, then for the east side of the state, but at this tournament I get to cheer on our State. One last thing I got to say is that I was very proud of our team. We might be small in number but pack mighty punch. We have a couple of guys in our line up that just started wrestling this year. They are both seniors and studs from our football team. One has only been wrestling a few weeks and though he didn't get to the next day he did pin a guy in his second match of his wrestling career. That was to cool. The other guy won his second match as well. I had to mention that as it is not easy to have your wrestling debut at Granite City. :)

[Bob Pollock]

[Southern_Hospitality]

The two wrestlers that go undefeated the first day are the only two wrestlers get seeded the second day and everything is else is a so-called blind draw. Bob, I believe if Northwest would of finish ahead of Edwardsville, the post would of had FZW number 1 follow by Northwest. I still feel FZW should be number 1.

[Louden]

Man I had a long night... I don't remember posting those things! I'm glad I was smart enough to have a DD!!! I remembered getting on here but I couldn't recall what I said. I guess that's what happens when you go through champagne like water...
:smt078

Thanks Ox for explaining things. I just found it curious that GC didn't match up against Oak Park very often the first day. I guess it was just luck of the draw.

Bob, you may be right, and I know the OP Coaches are going to be reviewing things and adjusting strategies, that's a given. Vito has lost one HS match in out of his last 70, but he has had some close calls. I think that Bennanati match was a 1 out of 10 match, but that's just my biased opinion. There was a lot of pressure I think of being undefeated and in the State Finals-and then you had Bennanati with nothing to lose going against a guy few thought he could beat, and he went out there and wrestled the match of his life. Too bad we won't be seeing that match up again until state. Vito will get to face Donte Butler soon who IMO is the #1 112 lber in the state right now. That very well could be Vito's first loss of the year, or it could be his moment to shine. Should be fun!!
Regardless, 112 is a stacked weightclass this year and anything can happen!

I saw RandyReversal this year but when he saw me he called for security and ran in fear. I had to promise him that I wouldn't hurt him before he could come over and talk to Obnoxio, Father Joe, and I.

:P

[MG_Grievous]

Man I had a long night... I don't remember posting those things! I'm glad I was smart enough to have a DD!!! I remembered getting on here but I couldn't recall what I said. I guess that's what happens when you go through champagne like water...
:smt078

Way to start out the new year on here!! :smt038

I had "a few" bottles of champagne last night, and then spent most of the Chiefs game on the :toimonster:

:smt012

[Dort]

JAM RETURNS!!! Man, I missed seeing you on here! Great to see you at the tournament and spend time with the boys...they were great!! Not terrors at all, as they kept my terror occupied too! Good to see Mike out as well. GC was a good time - good to see everyone.... :-D